The Seaforth News, 1932-03-10, Page 3THURSDAY, MARCH 10, 1932. •
anada andthe Gold
THE SEAFORTH NEWS.
Standard
sizzamiazzawassinsinnengemem
Rt. Hon, R. B. Bennett's Speech In The House Of Commons
on Februarg 29 On The Position Of Canada Today In Regard
To The Gold Standard.
(From Hansard)
Right Hon. R. B. BENNETT
,(Prime Minister) Mr, Speaker, be -
Cause I have had the responsibility,
particularly during the last few
months and until a few weeks ago, of
adminigtcring the Finance Ac't, I
shall make, witthont further (lelay, the
observations that I desie to make to
Ithis chamber.
I have 'followed with some interest
the remarks of the hon. member fcir
Vancouver Centre (Mr.. Mackenzie),
and his references to the technical
Side of the economics of the gold
standard are worthy of a great occa-
sion: But we •are dealing with prad
tical circumstances and facts. Un -
!fortunately his know,ledge •cif the is-
sues of dominion notes is hardly ac-
curate, as I shall presently ,point out.
AJs for the suggestions made by the
hon. member for Macleod (Mr.
Coote) I think I :shall be able to show
'to the chamber that if they were ad-
opted it would mean the ruination of
Ithis country at this time.'
In the first place, pray I ,merely am-
plify very briefly sorne of tho obser-
vations made by thehon. gentleman
who has just taken this seat. Why is
gold used as a Standard at all? That
!seems to be the first question that
/night reaSonally beasked. 'The ans-
wer is fairly elear. First, it is rare;
second, it is convenient, and third, it
has, by .reason of those circumstances
if you will, and others, a value that is
uniform throughout the world. Hence
it was, as the hon. gentleman has
'pointed out, that it became the stan-
dard for values. It was worth just
as much in Australia or Hongkong
'or London as it was in Paris or Wa-
a"""el.: ahington or Ottawa. Pt had a fixed
'value that did ndt fluctuate with
changing conditions. Therefore, for
these and many other reasons to
which on this occasion time will not
permit ane to refer, 'gold became a
standard for. valtes and we refer to
it as the rare metal, the metal of va-
lue, and in 'other terms, of that kind.
We in .this country, prior to and
since coefederation, have treated gold
'as a standard for values of our moire-
ta‘ry system. I Shall not do more
than refer to the statute that is the
!law at the present thne. That statute,
with which I trust most hon, mem-
hers are familiar, requires that the is-
sue 'jf dominion notes up 'to $50,000,-
000 be supported by a coverage of 25
per cent. of gold. 'That is, When the
iDdminion of Canada emits $50,060,000
.worth of its legal tender or promises
to pay on demand, there lies in y'onder
treasury $12,500,000 in gold that being
the ratio between the issue of paper
and gold which We .have by our stat-
ute provided- We have also provided
that for any sum beyond 50,000,000
we shall have one dollar in gold for
every dollar so issued. We also pro-
vide that ten per cent. of all 'the de-
posits in the Rost Office Savings bank
:shall be covered b,y gold.
May I point out to the house that
the hon. member was slightly in
error in connection with the .present
issue cif dominion notes,. If hon,
members will turn to page 21$8, of the
?Canada Gazette and look at the cir-
culation and specie for the 31st day
of January, 1932, they will find that
we have altered slightly the form of
the return as it used to be made in
years gone 'by, believing it to be de-
sirable that any person who wished
to do so might by looking at that
return ascertain exactly What the
gold coverage of this country was
,with respect to oat- issued notes.
First, under chapter four, 1915, there
was an issue of $26,000,000. The hon,
gentleman vho has just taken his
aa seat suggested that possibly $10,000,-
000 has been retired, I point out to
him that the whole $26,000,000 is still
outstanding. Then under the Finance
Wet of 1927, chapter seventy, there
was an issue of $45,000,000. That rep-
resents She notes -issued by the Do-
minion. of Canada under the statute
of 1915 and under the Finance Act,
now being chapter seventy of the Re-
mised Statutes of Canada for 1927,
amounting to a total of $711,000,000.
Then there has also been issued $99,-
,3182,505169 in dominion notes, covered
IRS to $50,000,000 by 25 per cent of
gold and as to the 'balance dollar for
dollar. Those three' items—the $26,-
000,000 issued and still outstanding in
lits entirety, the $45,000,000 also h-
ailed an d still outstanding in its entir-
ety, and the dominion notes, make a
totai of $170,3.80,805)09. May 1 point
out to the hon. member for 'Macleod
that we still have outstanding at bhis,
'hour over $71,000,000 of notes which
are not covered by' gold in any way,
shape or foram So wliat he asks has
already been done to the extent oil traint. If a nation is on the gold
$74,000,000.. stawdard, you can in Ottawa or Wit -
But nu-01er with respect to the sbington or London or elsewhere buy
'V9,382,805.169 of dominion notes out- gold as you could buy any other corn -
standing, it is only a matter of com- mociity. That, in general terms, is
.putation that it aequi.res $61,,832,805.- what it means. When in the days of
69 worth of gold to cover 'them; that my youth I first visited the Bank of
is, 25 per cent up to $30,000,090 plus England I can recall being struck by
dollat for dollar for the balance of, the ,fact that geld bars were roiled in
.$49,3812,180.5.69, making a total of $61,- on small lorries and sold just as any
882,805)69 which we have ih our commodity is sold in a grocery store.
treasury to cover, may I point out The truth is that London was the
to ,the hon. member who has just ta- great tree market for gold, and, the
ken hisstat (Mr. Mackenzie) not the reason.a free market for gold, has to
$1,70,000;000 but only the $99,000,000 be maintained for the punpose of
issue of dominion notei. That is ,poo- smaintaining the gold standard is a
lvided :for by the 'Duinioion notes act. ,simple one. Wihen . communities
IThe result is that at the end of the 'trade with one another there is rarely
month we had nearly $5,000,000 of aso equilibrium of imports and ex -
gold beyond what was required. That ports. There is usually a balance to
is (a) tett per ceirt. to take care of the be settled. The balance may be one
Peat ,office savings bank deposits; (b) 'way or the other, but ,Whatever way
$61,000,000 to take care of the dentin- the balance cs, in the end it has to be
ion notes outstanding under the pro- settled. There is no determination of
visions of the statute, by which 25 'when the end comes if the world re-
po): cent, up to $50,000,000 is in gold, mains at peace; but in 1914 suddenly
and beyondthat dollar for ddllar; the world was at war, and it became
and (c) a small suriplua of between necessary to adjust and settle hal-
$4,0g0,000 and $5,000,000. ances. make that explanation mere -
'Beyond that we had outstanding ly 'because the hon. gentleintan refer -
t$1,000,000 with no gold coverage at red to what happened in 1914. But
all, •so that the end sought for has al- let us look at the situation to -day.
ready been attained. We have a cur- :There is a .balance, let us say, between
rency'covered 'by gold up to, roughly, Great Britain and Canada, or between
$100,000,000, and. the balance is cov- the United States and France, or be-
ered by the resources of this country tween the United States and Germany
and the promise to pay of the Caned- or between Australia and Canada. In
ian people. the end the only method by which
!Now if it ended there, we might not those balances can be settled, if there
discuss further the resolution, but one are no bilis of exchange to buy, is by
'must never forget that there are many passing some commlodity that vvil'l.
obligations of this country in which. pass at par both with the payer and
there is a promise to pay gold. .When with the payee. That is obvioui, is
England went off the gold Standard, it not? It must have a parity of vel-
a very distinguished political econom- ue to the man who pays and to the
ist from London was in this country. man who receives for the purpose of
He is a gentleman very well known settling that balance. if Canada owes
by reputation to the group that sits the United States $100,000,000, Cana -
across the chamber to my right. He da cannot pay that $100,000,000 in
said to me, "Mr. Bennett, you should • pieces of paper unless they have be -
go off the gold standard." "Well," I hind .them a value which will make
said, .".ollaviously we are not on the $100000,000 in the United States
gold standard as you understand it." where the debt is payable. That is
lie said, "Well, I mean that you so clear that I :do not think it requires
should depart from it." I said, "My any argument to be understood by all
friends do ,you thiuk we could go off of US. 'That is the position of gold
the gold standard, as you use that at the moment. Gold 'is the one me -
team, with the ohligatious maturing dium of universal value Which enables
in New 'York that we have to meet in balances between nations—and when
gold during the next six months?" I say between nations I mean also
'Explain," he said. I explained to between the great corporations and
.him the situation just as it stoad. bankers abroad—to be settled.
"Well," he said, "that is a new phase I will give the house another illus -
of it." He wrote me a letter—he tration. When England went off the
cabled me, as a matter of fact .when gold standard, there was a part of the
he seethed London --and said, "You Canadian National finanding Which
are entirely right. You could not." had not been concluded. There was
Let me explain to the house just Still a balance o'f $19,000,000, for which
what is inisolved. We have maturing a loan had been made through a great
outside of Canada this year ,practical- 'bank in New York. Now, if I shin-
ty one milliem 'dollars a day of crbliga- ped down to Neva ,York 19 one mil-
tioos of governments, nutnicipalities lion deblar Canadian bills twould 'that
and public corporations, payable in pay the debt. Obviously it would not.
gold, te,ptesenting either payment of tBecahae those nineteen one million
,principal--instalroents of principal, if dollar bills could not be converted in -
you will—or payment of interest. to nineteen million dollars of gold,
[Obviously., as the hon. ineniber far there being no free market in respect
Madleod says, there is ant enough to it. That was the position. It' pat
gold to gay those all at once, but gold, upon us the tremendous obligation of
being a medium of exchange, circu- making the necessary arrangements
lates, and 'in its 'circulation lies its va- to carry over.
Inc. If the hon. gentleman :who has My hon. friend has referred also to
just taken his seat had said what 2 the position of the provinces. That
,think was 11 his mind, namely, that position did not arise betause of their
the lack of circulatioa of the gold that internal insolv.erecy. It arose because
is held by one of the great powers of they in coninton with the municipali-
}Europe, is the cease of the diffieulty, ties, had borrowed substantial sums
and -not the mere holdin.g of it, I to pay in New York in gold, mad hay -
would have been in entire agreement ing so prdmised they could not am -
with him. The Versailles treaty pro- .vent their dollar bills in their treasury
vided for Indemnities—we will use the or the money they could horrow from
word iadenutitiesand it follows that Canadian banks into gold as, a coin -
there is not Old ,eavough to pay all niodtty, because there was no free
She obligations prdvided for. Gold, market for it in this coantry, without
therefore, must circulate in order to, impairing, as it would, the whele.fin-
be tiieful; when it does nfot circulate ancial structure. So they were placed
its value disappears and it is no long- in the position where 'they too had
er a medium of eXchange. That, I to rely upon the credit of the dornin-
think, is what the hon. gentleman had ion for the moment to enable them
in mind in his reference to the acculna tO discharge their Obligations 'which
tilation of gold by one o't the great were payable abroad in gold. That is
arations. Of the world. the reasonthose provineesnew pro -
Now what was ourpositioa? Since 'vinces compared with old and ricIh
4929 we have not been 01 the geld provinces Liles Ontario and Quebec—
standard. In that year, for reasons were compelled to make the arrange -
beat known to the government of the talents they did.
day, practically $40,000,000 of gol'd Now, sir, I put to the house thiS
was shipped to the United,States. The question: With a currency to -clay
effect was of course to lessen the sup- of Ohl& 4165,000,000 of Money is out -
ply of gold in this country by $40,000,- standing, not covered by gold, what
000 and for the moment to substitute would happen if this act 'wets to be
for gold, credits in New York. It repealed :and we no longer remain op -
therefore followed that when Eng- on She basis of supiporting our cur -
land went off the gold basis, we were re•ncy with the coverage provided by
not on the gold standard' as that term statute ? What would happen to your
is used in continental Europe and in dollar bill? It might be worth 25
international commerce. With what cents on the dollar• -it. Might be.
.hon, friend Froin Veneouver 'There is .no man whohas given ally
;Centre has said I an wholly in ac-, attention to this who' has not,reallized
cord, namely. that the term gold .stan, that, and yet. .my hon. friend from
dard as it is Used by international' :Maelead suggests it this parliament
bankers and financiers means that passed' a statute by Which we repeal -
gold is a commodity freely bought' ed the provision for gold coverage
anil sold without restriction or res- for our currency the millenium would
be ushered in s0. far as this country
is concerned, 1 put that proposition
to this chamber, which alter all it a
deliberative assembly. Does any
member think that it is feasible? Be-
hind what we emit as money, behind.
the currency that we send out from
the treasury, must not we always
have something that has a fixed va-
lue? How otherwise can we manage?
0 just put that to the house. This talk
of the gold standard in theory is
something about which, as the lion,
:gentleman who has just taken his
.seat has said, we could have very
learned and lengthy discussions. The
hon. member for Macleod has read
the opinions of most distinguished
men—they are economists. I am nol
an economist, but Mace September
last I have been dealing with a real
'probl'em—maintainting the credit land
.financial integrity of Canada, and I
know exactly what at least the men
we owe say. And after all the man
you OW e is very often the man who
has something to say about the situa-
tion. I pet to the house if that is not
fair.
1Wihen "England went off the gold
standard you Will recall—and I waist
to correct my hon. friend as I pro-
ceed—you will recall the news came
across the water on Monday night,
lAs a matter of fact I am merely ilia
&eating what might be. read by any
hon. gentleman who so desires, that
for months prior to that it was point-
ed out by the 'Ohancellot of the Ex-
thequer and others in Great Britain
that the steady increase in imports
was making a drain upon the goid olf
the Bank of England to such an ex-
tent that unless it were Checked or
the gold deposits maintained there
must be ruin. I think if my hon.
friend will new do me the honoor of
thinking for a moment as to What I
said he will recall it was this: The
great excess Of imports over exports
brought about the situation. Once
more I come balek to my illustration.
'England had continuously increased
her imparts and they were swelling up
by hmtdreda of millions of pounds so
that at one time they had readied the
colossal figure in one week of two
billion pounds more imports than ex-
ports—ten billion dollars in our cur-
rency. The result. was that when the
balances were adjusted, at the end of
the month, or whatever the period
May be, there being no bills of ex
Change to go out to meet these oblig-
ations, they had to pay them in gold,
and the only place to get it was the
free market in the Bank Of England.
Every day the gold reserves were go-
ing dowa--dowm, down, down. Then
there came the unfortunate incident
in connection with 'the fleet. You
will recall that immediately there
came from Holland and other. 'contin-
ental countries vast SIMS of :British
securities. These were thrown upon
the market on Friday afternoon and
all Saturday morning for any price
they would fetch. ISecunities were sold
for ffity cents on the dollar, for even
less than that. As soon as they were
sold the seller demanded gold, and
although the Blank Of England sas-
pended payment on Saturday night—
it was announced to the world on
Sunday --the fact is that approxi-
mately ten 'billion pounds in gold was
taken 'from the ,bank 1Friday afternoon
and 'Saturday morning. The result
'was the bank .could no longer sustain
the demand made upon the treasury
for gold; the free market had, dis-
appeared; it could no longer
meet the demands fec gold in-
stead of paper. That being so, late
Saturday night the bank concluded
to go off the gold basis, and the
Chancellor of the Exchequer made
the announcement which appeared in
the papers on the succeeding day.
Now, loop at what we had to do.
It affords rile an Opportunity to tell
this house, because the, wisdom of
what we did do has been questioned.
The message to ns was in cipher. It
was decoded late Sunday night, It
was im.posaible in the very -nature Of
things to gather our colleagues about
us. A decision had to be taken. What
were ,we going to do ? What would
you say about roar country tinder
similar circumstances ? Well, the
Statement I made, as you recall, was
perhaps in fifteen words; ,I ,said it was:
for the people of Great Britain to
determine 'what they would do hut
we would continue to meet ,our ob-
ligations in gold Where we had pro-
mised to pay in gold. We had to do
that or our credit was gone. We
were deprived of the market for our
securities. England :being no longer
in a position to meet any /el:Mesta we
'might make for assistanee, having
failed to maintain her poaition as a'
free gold market despite the advances
made by France and by the United
States in the, farm. of gold credits, we
were thrown upon .one market and
one market only—the market of New
York. And not only that. Upon what
we said that night depended, the cre-
dit of this country. Let us have no
misunderstanding about it. The inter-
national bankers of that oity knew
far better ;than some of the members
of this house the terms of our Fti-
nance Act, our Currency Act, our Do-
minion .Nfotes Act, our Bank Act, It
;as
"He should be
home by this time"
Mts. Fowler was worried. Her husband
had gone to town for the day but he was
to be back in plenty of time to feed the
stock And now it was getting dark
Then the telephone rang: "Sorry,Mary",
came her husband's voice, "I can't get
home till late. Better telephone George
Bothwell and ask him to help us out."
So the stock was fed and Mrs. Fowler's
worry was ended. No wonder she said:
,"It's lucky we have a telephone:'
is not necessary for Inc to do more
than make that statement. They
were aware therefore that technical-
ly since 1929 the country had . been
off the gold standard as the hon.
gentleman has defined it, but we were
still working under the provisions of
the Currency Act which provided
gold coverage in the terms enacted
for our dominion note issue. I said
we proposed to meet our obligations
in the terms of our promises, and
we have done so. The only reason
we assisted the provinces was to en-
able them to Meet their obligations
in the terms of their promises; that
is all. Of course it does not follow
that this means there is any difficulty
in the situation of the provinces; it
does not mean that they have be-
come bankrupt. It only means this,
that for the purpose of meeting ob-
ligations which they were not able
to convent into gold at the time, we
had to assume the responsibility of
helping thein, and we have advanced
money for that purpose. That is the
position in connection with the ap-
plication 'of the gold standard to our
tountry.
The modern tendency is to believe
that forty percent is a sufficient aver-
age metallic coverage for bills. That
is, inatead of 25 per cent up to $50,-
000,000, and there after dollar for dol-
lar, the modern thought is that if we
have 40 per cent coverage for all our
issues we will be safe. That is the
generally accepted rule to -day, and
you will observe that on the last day
of 'January the total outataading was
$1170,0005000. Forty per cent of that
makes a total (If $d8,000,000, and you
will observe that 'while we ctid not
have that $68,000,900, nevertheless our
coverage of gold so nearly approxi-
matedit that the credit of this coun-
try has steadily improved. I say
frankly that but for Great Britain
going off the gold standard, and but
for the depreciation of the' pound and
the difficulties the pound has expeni-
eneed, the' dollar of this, country
would be worth par or practically
par in New York. About that there
need be practically no difficulty. That
is the reason Why this government
has laboured clay after clay and week
after week, first to create and then to
maintain a favourable trade balance;
because we could not face the po.ssi-
bility o'f having to pay in the only
medium that would be accepted uni-
versally, gold, an adverse balance
which a year ago, Mr, Speaker, ,was
$103,000,000. 'We have converted that
now until the favourable balance
where gold is due to us is between
$10;000,000 and $25,000,000.
I do not ask you, sir, or this, house
to treat that as a great tribute to a
government because the Canadian
people have done it. They have had
to undergo many difficulties . and
many ptiVations, and they have made,
many sacrifices to do so. It has in- ‘.
convenienced many great merchants.,
but in the long run I am in the judg--
ment of the house and of those whoa
have given thought and considerations
to the matter -When I say that I be-
lieve if we had done ought other than
that we would have failed in our duty'
to this country at this time, 1 be-
lieve that will be the judgment of •
those who have given math consider-
ation to the question. It may interest
some of my hon. friends opposites,
who should take an equal pride witlat
us in the matter, to knhw that there,
are economists who say that the.:
greatest single achievement that has.:
been 'brought about by any country -
in the world since the depression has.
been that of ten million. people in -
Canada, who have converted an ad-
verse trade b'alance o.f $103,000,000.1
into a favourable balance.
!Now we get dawn to the question. •
of credit. I wonder if any mart in•
this house will say there is lack of
credit facilities in this country at the
moment, having regard to the secur-
ity that is available for the credit
asked, I have discussed the matter.
with men who have asked the batiks.
to lend—what? It is not their Moineyw
for remember that the banks have rrov
money of their own; their capital and'
reserves are locked up not only in:
buildings and facilities bus 110 re-•
serves of cash, and the money they;
loan belongs to the s'mal'l and big.
people of this country Who have their
deposits in the banks. 10 nine cases
out of ten my observation hag been
that 1..Vhen I have pinned down the ap-
plicant who complained, with this
question, "Would you lend your
money ott that risk," in most cases,.
sir; 'he has said to me, "No." You go'
into the bank and ask for $1,000—of;
whose money? It is $1,000 of yourr
neighbour's deposits, but you ask to
borrow that $1,000 of your neigh --
hour's .deposits, and when the hanker -
asks what security you can give you
say, "We'll, I ani going out on a fannt .
have not got one yet, but I expect:
that I will be able to get a soldier-
sdttleinent farm on reasonable teems;
I am going to work Pt, and they will
help me with respectto a crop." DO
you think you would want your mon-
ey lent on that security, if it was ott
deposit? Do you think that is a risks
that would enable you to dralw your -
money out alt the bank when you
-
write your cheque ad present it ?
What is the reason that in the Unit-
ed States four thonsancl banks have.
failed in the last two years? It is be-
cause their assets were 'in securities.
'that were not canveritible into. malls
so Agt the cheques of 'their deposit-
ors could be met.
Colitinhed on Page 7)'.