The Wingham Advance-Times, 1972-06-08, Page 11The :general public is fed
with both °the railways and t
bus lines in this area of the pro
ince, if the briefs presented at
public hearing in Walkerton a
any indication. A House of Co
mons Committee on Trans
and Communications sat
Thursday to hear depositlo
about the public transportati
situation as a result of ma
complaints since the Canadia
Transportation Oommissi
agreed to the stoppage of ra
passenger services in the fall
1970.
One of the early briefs was pr
sented by Harvey Davis, warde
of Bruce, who said that he spo
for the 42,000 residents of th
county. Afterenumerating th
reasons why the public is di
satisfied with the present situ
tion, Mr. Davis said that it is no
only the people -carrying fiel
that the rail companies have, per
mitted their services to de
teriorate. He stated that th
mortality rate in cattle shippe
from the western provinces ha
increased by 642 per cent in th
pastyear, and blamed the apath
of the rail workers for the situa
tion.
If the railways have been losin
money and require governmen
funds to subsidize their opera
tions, said the warden, they are
not really unique in Canada. He
referred to the arts centre in
Ottawa where Canadians have
paid $50,000 for sculptures that
appear to be the product of a de-
mented mind. We seem to have
plenty of money to assist other
nations, he went on. The losses
involved in the Western Ontario
operations of the rail lines are
hardly worth mentioning in com-
parison with other public ex-
penditures.
The needs of senior citizensi,
said Mr. Davis, are of paramount
importance. Under present
transport conditions it is difficult
for an older person to get out of
the area for medical treatment in
a largercentre. We live in a com-
puter age, he protested, and we
should be able to solve problems
of transportation without such
tremendous sacrifice. -
The warden referred to the re-
construction of the Palmerston -
Southampton line to serve Doug-
las
ouglas Pointconstruction and
suggested that some sort of pas-
senger service could be es-
t . i ird " con a daily: 'rn.
he
v -
re
port
on
ns
on
ny
ill
of
n
kee
e
e
a-
a
e
s
e
Y
g
ies tro, 1iVail
'..1bui$ q
Deliberate Action
Mr. Davis. expressed his con-
viction, which was repeated
many times during the day by
other witnesses, that the railway
had deliberately alioed passen-
'ger travelling conditions in de-
llo pots and rolling stock to deterior-
ate so that business would decline
thus lend weight t6"the con:
tention that, the service was un-
economical: He further con-
tended that if the railways are to
be .granted cessation rights they
have an obligation to reimburse
the municipalities in -this area for
the moneys which were originally
contributed for their construes-
8
onstrue-8 tion.
Alfred Hales, M.P., a com-
mittee member, immediately re-
turned to Mr. Davis' statement'
on. cattle mortality when the -
question, period opened. He
wanted to know who pays for
these losses. Mr. Davis replied
thatthe' railways pay $100 for
each animal lost due to negli;;
gence, and he intimated that
*, proof of ,negligence is an ex-
tremely difficult matter and the•
$100 is a bit of a joke at today's
livestock pricers. Private insur-
ance, said the witness, is expen
sive and is bound tb becOMe pro,
hibitive, given the increase in
ani<ilnal losses.
M. Hales asked whether •Mr:
Davis believed the railway's
equipment for, handling livestock
is Adequate, i•."� t should be. in a
museum," said the Bruce war,
den. "It is totally obsolete."
When he was asked about feed-
ing facilities along the railway
routes from the West, Mr. Davis
replied °'that there are enough
stopping points but that facilities
are inadequate. He recounted a
trip he had made from the west-
ern provinces accompanying a
shipment of cattle during cold
weather. At Winnipeg the water
troughs were frozen and when he
attempted to protest to the rail-
way stock tenders be was told to
"get the hell out". At some points
he said the animals are moved
from one pen to another with so
many delays that they are fre-
quently reloaded without having
been near feed or water.
Need a Task Force
Mr. Hales responded to these
revelations with the declaration
that a gmmons task force
should be set up at once to fully
investigate the conditions under
which livestock is moved in this
country. He even named the per-
sonnel for such a body --a ship-
per, a farme - der, a _rep-
resentative of the railway and a
per -son -from the Humane Society.
Mr. Davis said that no electric
heaters have ever been installed
at the feeding points to keep
water from freezing and added,
"They use water troughs of the
sort my grandfather had 50 years
ago."
Mr. Veenis of the CNR agreed
that an over-all study of livestock
shipping conditions would be
advisable. -
Mr. Davis was not able to
supply total figures for cattle
losses, other than the percentage
referred to above, but offered to
provide the totals to the com-
mittees by mail.
Marvin Howe asked Mr. Davis,
"Do you believe adequate alter-
nate passenger service has been
provided'1", The reply was,
"I do not."
Mr. Howe: "lave you,. 0t'.
one you know been questionotl:
about rail service (by ,a,n otfi►clai
inquiry)?" Mr. Davis'
sonnally, no. And I dpljbt that
anyone else has."
It was disclosed that 'an offs, a
of the Canadian Transpoa't Com-
mission is reported to have .held.
hearings in the area. The ielef
was expressed that it must hauo
been bus company employees ,
talked to. sincelhe CTC indicated
recently they had ascertained
that transport facilities in this:
area are adequate.
Iioesn't Want Congestion.
Asked about the probabilities of
large-scale industrial growth
with the development of the
Douglas Point power site, Mr.
Davis was less than enthusiastic
about the prospect. "We want to
keep this county clean," he said,
"If industrial growth means
pollution—then we will be happy
to keep it the way it is."
�I
Owen nd Speaks
Robert Ruta erford, mayor of
the City of Owen Sound, R. M.
Campbell, Owen Sound business-
man and representative of the
Chamber of Commerce there and
Reeve Inglis, a former warden of
Grey County presented the briefs
from that area.
Mr. Rutherford spoke of the
promises which had been made
when passenger service was
abandoned and said that the
promises bad never been ful-
filled. In Mr. ,utherford's opin-
ion the lack of travel facilities is
self-defeating as far as govern-
ments are concerned. The federal
government, for in -t..X las
opened such attract the
national arts centre ui Ottawa;
the provincial government has
opened Ontario Place—but only
those people who have cars can
get out of this area to enjoy these
showplaces, despite the fact that
their taxes help pay for therm.
Health services and leisure time
activities are similarly affected,
he said. Even those who drive
their own cars are subject to the
hazards of weather in winter as,
indeed, are the bus services.
The mayor concluded with the
statement that too much time has
already been expended in studies
and surveys. The time has come,
he said, for action.
Robert M. Campbell presented
a brief prepared on behalf of the
Owen Sound Chamber of Com-
merce, the Owen Sound Labor
Council. the Wiarton Chamber
and an extensive list of servi
clubs in the northern sector.
He struck a responsive note
the audience when he said, "Th
principle to be served here is no
what's best for the railways ---b
rather what is best for people.
Freight profi , he said, should be
used tit. benef t people -by way of
continued assenger services
even though that particular serv-
ice is not, in itself, profitable,
"Transportatipn," avowed Mr.
Campbell, "is every bit as vital
as hospitalization and welfare."
Owes a Debt
Mr. Campbell introduced a new
thought to the proceedings when
he listed in detail the contribu-
tions made by the municipalities
in Western Ontario for the con-
struction of the rail lines whic
were later to become parts of th
Canadian National system. Thes
municipal funds totalled about a
million dollar's at that time. The
witness had done his homework
and he reported to the committee
that if the original million had
been invested at eight percent in
1875 and compounded annually
since that time it would now
amount to $$00 million. In return
for the use of this money the rail-
ways had guaranteed to provide
service—not until "some rainy
Friday in 1970, but in per-
petuity."
Mr. Campbell proposed that if
,th guaranteed service is to be
,withheld, the money should be re-
, turned to the contributors.
(Percy Noble, committee mem-
ber, referred to _ the $800 million
and said that losses of $750,000 a
year as -Claimed by the railway,
could be offsetfor the next 800;
years by the original investment:
It was, at least, a novel approach
to transport financing.)
•Mr. Noble asked Mayor Ruth-
erford whether or not industries
in Owen Sound had approached
him with requests for better rail
service. The mayor said that they
had not, because they have been
carrying out independent studies
on the problem.
ailway representative
grilled by c�mrnittee
R. N. Veenis, London area
manager for Canadian National
Railways, was under fire for al-
most two hours last Thursday
morning at public • hearings in
Walkerton. The hearings were
caped by the House of Commons
Standing Committee on Trans-
port and Communications, in-
quiring into public transportation
facilities in this area of Western
Ontario,
After many years of seeking to
give up its passenger services,
the Canadian National and Cana-
dian Pacific received approval
for the move from the Canadian
Transport. Commission in No-
vember, 1970. As a result, pas-
senger service was d�' ontinued
on the CN lines from Palmerston
to Kincardine through Wingham r
and Listowel ; Palmerston to t
Southampton; Stratford oto h
-,Goderich—and Palmerston to
gfii,44Y „well as.the CP S
Mr. Veenis said, "We ha
made arrangements for alter
tive services," but failed to sp
them out in clear terms.
"Do you agree," asked Mr. M
Kinley, "that it will be extreme
difficult to, get passenger bu
ness back since it has be
abandoned?" Mr. Veenis sa
"No,"and went on to point o
that passenger service
ve.
na-
ell
c-
ly
si-
en
rut
has dian .,National- is making money
ger service, Mr. Veenis replied,
"If possible."
Bores In
Ross Whicher, the M.P. from
Wiarton, pulled no punches in his
attack on the railways. He
pointed out that the largest con-
struction project in Canada is'
under way at Douglas Point and
that there is no doubt the Cana -
proved uneconomic and loss
were in the neighborhood
$750,000 for the Western Ontar
area each year.
out of the heavy freight business-
01` required for .completion of the
io hydro and heavy water plants. He
couid see no reason why some Of
the profits realized from freight
ut business could not be used, to
y balance passenger losses—"to
es help people,"as he put it.'
d.
st • Mr. Whither also referred to
is the profitable department oper-
s_ ated by the railway in 'the corn-
y munications field and said this
p money could also be channeled to
balance passenger service losses.
e 4'Or third•of all 'the -food pro-
s
�T�ana a, . Wh'-
s ' cher h
Mr. McKinley then asked alio
he disposition of railwa
properties in the communiti
where they are being abandone
'Will they be sold to the highe
bidder?" he asked. Mr. Veen
eferred to the Town of Harri
on, where the railway propert
ad been turned over to a grou
erving the senior citizens.
Percy Noble,: M.H., one .of''tb
ezr Sound, c
Public protest has been mount- w
ing since the severance, with the s
result that a committee of the d
House was appointed to study the li
situation. ,
Answers Missing u
Mr. "Veenis' testimony fit the c
opening of'Thursday's hearings g
failed to convince either mem-
bers of the public or of the com- S
mittee that the railways have 'F
been deeply concerned about the el
public interest. * is
Robert McKinley, 'M.P., Huron, t9
an acting member of the com- g
mittee,`asked for information on m
the breakdown of the railway's ex
losses which would give a true to
picture of the economies in-
volved. He said that the com- Pa
mittee should be informed about th
possible profits on freight and ex- ce
press in this area as well as th
losses claimed for the operation ra
of passenger service. w
Failing to get a conclusive an- ge
swer Mr. McKinley said the in- ba
formation' would have to be ob- lin
tained from 'the Canadian Trans- M
port Commission. The federal tru
member then referred to the lik
closing of railway stations at
many points and asked, "What is wh
the next Ste ?"
1 •
ommittee members, aske
hether the CN had upgraded it
ervices before or after with
rawal from the Western Ontari
nes. Mr. Veenis said it was be
ore that date, and referred to th
se of rail liners as a more "effi
ient means. of moving. passen
d duced' C d "'said NI'r r
"is grown in Ontario, mut
- of it in the area affected by the
o rail severances, yet this is the
part of the country-, the railway
e has chosen to abandon." p
- "Sir John A. Macdonald built
- two railways with no money and
no machinery," Mr. Whicher ob-
- served, "and all you fellows want
. , to do is tear everything up."
e (Clapping. Chairman; "No ap- ,
1 plause, please."),,, .
s But the Member from Bruce
1 wasn't through. "I'll bet you fel-
lows had a big party when the
CTC said you can quit." He com-
- ` pleted his remarks with the
avowal that the railways should
'be showing leadership rather t
than walking out on 'a developing
nation. . •
What Alternative?
Another of the committee a
members wanted to know about
the railways' disposition of their k
obligation to handle passsengers t
in this area. "Who took the re-
sponsibility for providing passen- t
ger service when the railways w
were let out?" he asked.
Mr. Veenis replied that "he f
thought" the CTC had said there o
would be alternative -services c
available. advantage
ers.
Mr. Noble said that the Grey
imcoe area has no rail service
or the young people and th
derly who cannot drive, trave
most difficult. Bus service i
tally inadequate. The federa
overnment, he said; subsidizes
any services to Canadians, •for
ample, the arts centre in Ot
wa. Thousands of •Canadians
who will never see the centre are
ying for its upkeep. It is logical
at transport services'should .re-
ive the same support.
A question' addressed to the
ilway representatives asked
hether it was true that passen-
rs have been forced, to ride in
ggage compartments on those
es which are still operating.
r. Veenis admitted . this was
e, "but the railway doesn't
e
answer to the question of
ether 'or not there will be
ther abandonments of passen=
. ur
"Then responsibility must rest
with the Canadian;, Transport
,Commission," said the- commis-
sion member.
Mr. Turner (chairman) : "If
you remove passenger services it
is obvious that most of the costs
of the operation . remain un-
changed." (He was referring to
the capital costs of lines and
equipment.)
Mr. Veenis: "Agreed."
Another committee member:
"Does the railwayhave enough
equipment to handle passenger
services if they are ordered to re-
store there?"
Mr. Veenis: "I don't know."
Another questioner wantedto
knowhal information services
are available to the public about
main line schedules 'which are
still- operating. Mr: Veenis said
that a Zenith number is provided
for those who wish to call in to a
central information point.
"t One of the coinmitted'nlerubers
asked whether or not cost figures
for the period immediately prior
to the abandonment of passenger
services could be supplied to -the
committee -by the, railway. Mr.
Veenis replied that would be a
"policy decision" to be deter-
mined by his superior and he was
not sure the information would be
available to the public. -
Marvin Howe, M.P., who until
recently represented this area for
the federal riding of Wellington -
Huron, took up the questioning.
He asked the railway representa-
tive if he had looked up records as
far back as 1960 when applica-
tions were made for discon-
tinuance of passenger services in
his tree. At that time, said Mr.
Howe, a group of Members had
discussed the matter with the
minister of transport and the
pplication had been withdrawn.
Mr.' Veenis apparently had no
nowledge of the procedures
aken at that time. -
Mr. Howe added the •informa-
ion that new applications for
ithdrawal of services had been
made possible by changes in the
ederal act, covering railway
perations, of which the railway -
ompanies had taken immediate
Railways.. .. Bus.. Companies
Mr. Noble, who represents
North Grey area in the Co
mons, said that he had recei
many letters himself, compla
ing about inadequate servi
Studying the times involved
had come to the conclusion
one bus route achieves an a
age travelling speed of• only
miles an hour from Owen Soun
to Toronto. The general averag
he said, does not exceed 35.mi1
an hour.
ce Marvin Howe posed a questi
to a later witness in regard to th
in condition in which unused ra
e way properties are being mai
t tained. He said that the last tim
ut he saw the Southampton statio
the Saltzman replied that the CIV
m� did not have the power or
red authority to accept any •sort of
in -
es. ppromise�, from the bus companies
he aboutalternate travel facilities,
that because rile CTC,had no•power t°
.
ver- enforce them, `ht s, he said, the
24 responsibility falls squarely upon
d the federal government.
es Roy Kennedy, 77; a member of
the senior citizens organization
in Chesley, submitted one of the
on most tellingbriefs when he de -
e scribed how difficult it is for an
de-
ft elderly person to travel beyond
n- his own community. He de -
e scribed their situation as. "house
arrest" in one's own town,
,I
property it was overgrown wi
Douglas Middleton present
the main 'brief for the Town o
Chesley, which has no transpo
services of any kind. Hp said th
town has made repeated effor
to secure some form of service
without success. Mr. Middleto
said that no miles of paid laid
fare plus bus lare from Owe
Sound is required to reach Toron
to from Chesley.
In answer to a question from
h Committee member Skoberg,
e Mr. Middleton said the number of
e senior citizens in Chesley is from
500 to 600 out of a total population
of about 1,900.
Mr. Skoberg's reSponse to the
problem of so many elderly
people unable to get out of their
town on public transit was,
"Danin disgraceful situation!"
Max Saltzman, M.P., another
of the committee members, elic-
ited that the Town of Chesley has
been an organized commtmity
since the year 1885.. He asked Mr.
Middleton whether in his opinion
the town would have grown to its
present size without rail service.
The ansvver was "No."
th
RoyMurphy, .Salting, for the
'own of Hamster), advocated the
ed implementation of interlocking ..
f rail and bus services to facilitate
rt . passenger traffic. He also ex -
e pressed the opinion that the rail •
-
ts ',ways sought to discourage pas-
senger business by downgrading
n the quality of service rendered,
He referred to travel on dayliners
n which were filled to more than
_ capacity so that overflow passen-
gers had • placed in the
Mr. Saltzman said it was an act
of irresponsibility to abandon rail
service to the community with no
guarantee that an alternative
methodof travel would be avail-
able to the residents.
Mr. Noble pointed out that the
situation in Chesley makes it
very plain why people are mov-
ing from the smaller places to the
cities. Who wants to be isolated in
one, community, he asked.
Mr. Middleton had questions
of. his own. He asked' the com-
mittee members 'who should be
held responsible for the break-
down of- travel facilities. Mr.
•
MURRAY GAUNT, M.P.P. (HURON—BRUCE)
baggage com $ artment. At no
time, however, did the railway
add extra cars, or even put seats
in the baggage space—long after
the time when the lines were no
longer using that space for
baggage or express. Mr. Murphy
also spoke of a distinct deteriora-
tion in the freight service since
the , removal of local agents and
pointed out that expensive freight
cars often sit for days on a local
siding because no one directs
train crews to pick them' up after
they have been unloaded
Hanover Brief
Rev: Swan, mayor of the Town
of Hanover, was chiefly con-
cerned aboukthe deterioration in
freight service. In his community
industry is an all-important
factor and with the departure of a
local agent of •the railway it is
much ' more difficult to arrange
the movement of rnerchanlise,
materials and manufactured
goods. ,
Ontario, he said, is a growing
province, but since extension to
the south and west is prohibited
by the proximity' of the Great
Lakes, the Western Ontario area
is the most likely direction in
which developments will- take
'place. Without rail service, die
- said, that growth will be seriously
hampered. a
Report from Queen's Park
The Federal Government's
standing committee on transport
and communications held hear-
ings in our area -last week, and I
presented a brief to the Commit-
tee, pointing out the need for res-
toration
toration of passenger rail ser-
vice.
When service was discontinu-
ed, it was stated that an alterna-
tive 'bus service existed, and I
drew the Committee's attention
to the fact that the bus service
provided was very unsatisfactory
indeed. I also pointed out the high -
percentage of ,people over 65 in
the area who have no other way
to travel other than by. means of
public transportation, and that in
some cases these people are be
ing forced to move from . their
homes to larger metropolitan
centres to be close to the neces-
sary medical, hospital and other
facilties I stressed the serious-
ness of the situation regarding
g
public transportation,- and ex- recommendation would be before •
pressed the hope that the Com- the` House of Commons before
mittee would recommend rein- Parliament adjourns this sum -
statement of services discontinu- mer.
ed in the last two years, pending a The auditing team investigat-
full investigation into passenger ing the Provincial Auditor's
service needs. Department. continues to report
Hugh Edighoffer (Liberal, to the public accounts committee
Perth) presented a brief recom- of. the Legislature, and has
. mending restoration of service to requested the assistance of the
a hearing of the standing com- Ontario Provincial Police to
mittee at Stratford earlier in the carry out their investigations.
week. Donald Deacon, Liberal Mem-
Charles Turner (M.P. for Lon- ber of the Committee, says he
don East) who is acting chairman will demand that Solicitor -Gen -
of the Committee stated, follow- eral John Yaremko order a police
ing the hearings, that in his opin- • investigation because "it's im-
ion full railway passenger rv- possible for the Committee to
ice should be restored . really get to the root of this
Winghani, Goderich, Walkerton, spending and the police have the
Owen. Sound and Palmerston powers and facilities to make a
areas by this fall. He said he more extensive investigation."
expected his Committee to At this point in the investigation,
recommend the restoration of the the auditing team has discovered
service cut off by C.N. and C.P.R. some $35,000 improperly charged
Y
seven m
rn
ry
rst stries.
late in 1970, and he this felt t
s b
...........................
Beth smell something less than sweet
By Barry Wenger
Ontario's transportation companies—
Canadian National Railways, Canadian Pa-
cific Railways and the bus eOmpanies which
operate under franchise protection in this
section of the province are not very popular
hereabouts.
In the two years since the railways were
granted permission by the Canadian Trans-
port Commission to cut off passenger serv-
ices discontent has been growing month by
month, It found verbal outlet Oefore the
House of Commons Standing Committee on
Transport and Communicatidns in Walker-
ton last Thursday.
After an entire day of testimony there
can be little doubt remaining about the in-
adequacy of public transport facilities in this
area. Most towns are badly served—and
some, like Chesley, are not served at aII.
The two railways were represented by a
lone official—if indeed he was representing
CPRo in any way at all. When the questions
became pointed and sticky he simply did not
have the answers. When charges were.
levelled that CN was concerned only .with
profits and very little with people he pre-
sented little or no argument to the contrary.
The present dismal,s,iluation in public
transport is the result of an all -too familiar
pattern of buck -passing. The Canadian
Transport Commission permitted the rail-
ways to step .out of their responsibility to
handle passenger traffic with the excuse that
the existing bus tines could fill the need. The
bus" lines promised not only to supply a
parallel service, but to greatly improve it
once they had a clear field.
The CTC, as it develops, was entirely out
of order in accepting any sort of promises
from the bus lines, over which it had, in fact,
no authority. As a matter of record, the bus
lines have totally failed to provide any sort of
improvement in their services .and do not ap-
proach even the meagre standards which
were maintained by the railways in the lat-
ter years of their passenger trade.
The most pertinent question raised at
the hearing was, "Who is responsible?"
There is only one acceptable answer to
that question. The government of Canada is
responsible.
Over ,long years we Canadians have
tended to disassociate the Canadian National
Railways from government. It has operated
as an independent entity and most of us think'
of it in terms of independent business. We
are totally in .error, of course.
Canadian National Railways is a group-
ing of smaller rail lines which faced bank-
ruptcy, or at best, very trying times in the
1920's. The government of Canada, recogniz-
ing the vital need for functioning railways in
a country so widespread and sparsely popu-
lated as ours, bailed the smaller lines out
and formed the national railway system.
Neither at that time nor at any time since
then was there any sign that the railways
would show a handsome profit. The govern-
ment had decided to pay the bill for a neces-
.... ':V:':•:•:'::•��•'�� •.\:i:•!iii•i':•:ii:Yi .':•iii•':''.•: ti}.::...
sary service.
The subsidized position of the_railways is
in no way unique in the Canadian scene. One
has but to recall the Canadian Broadcasting
Corporation which costs Canadian taxpayers
well over $150 million each year; the Na-
tional Art Gallery; and across the street
from it in Ottawa the National Centre for the
Performing Arts, which ran into several mil-
lions over estimate in construction alone;
the National Film Board, with a budget
which we haven't•even heard mentioned in
some years.
We should also give thought to the pro-
testations of -the government's auditor who
had to scream to high heaven before the gov-
ernment could be prevailed upon to let him
have a free hand in his reports to the House
of Commons—reports which, of course, point
out the waste of public money that free
spenders in public office take so lightly. 4k -
LL
The hard facts Of the railway problem
are that our own employees—the officials of
.......:•r:•........... }?}..... .: �' . ?�. G7ti' :1{}t1}�tjl;ti:.} t�{C? `:;:}�?7v}'�}�t
CNR—are telling us just where and how we
are obliged to sacrifice services which we
are prepared to pay for.' The Canadian Na-
tional Railway is the property of the people
of Canada—not the asset of a group of highly -
paid directors in Montreal. When it becomes
plain beyond any doubt that the owners are
prepared to pony up for the losses in order to
continue 'passenger services the directors
employed by we, the owners, would do well
to do what they are told.
The comrnittee which heard representa-
tions from the public last week is not the
CTC—it is an alI•party committee of the
House of Commons, charged with the re-
sponsibility of reporting to the House on the
wishes of the residents of this area—one "of
the most important rural -urban sectors in
the entire Dominion.
-t is their duty to tell it as they heard it,
and to demand immediate action to rectify
the grave abdication of trust of which the
railways have been guilty.