The Huron Signal, 1882-03-10, Page 4le .oa ole .
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444. 4444.444444.--4-44•444.44444044
THE HURON *SIGNAL, FRIDAY, MARCH 10, 1882.
ANTI -TAXATION.
Bir Richard Cartwright's Reply
to the Budget Speech.
complete Itspesertl et Try h11adu.—TM
Frames K Pntetaise—Testae w mate
see or mate mem m/en.
The following is a full r.p`ort of the
rept t $ir Richard Qsrtwrtkht to the
Hod speech of Sir Leonard Tilley.
The Mail and the other leading Tory
papers were afraid to publish it. Its
peroral will well repay any une anxious
to get at the true inwardness of protec•
tion:
Mr. Speaker, it is my pleasing duty
on the present occasion to compliment
the Hon. Minister of Finance on one im-
portant improvement on his previuus
practice. Until now, Sir, we hare not,
although we cane t say we have not
urged and spurred him on— we have
never been able to induce that hon.
, gentleman to bring down his Budget to
Parliament in a reaso nab:e time after
the opening of the Legislature, auy lnuch
"valuable time has thereby been Lot,
wasted I might say, to very little pur-
pse. Now, Sir, although the hon.
gentleman has been eery slow and very
long in fullowinsg'the good eximple set
under the Administration of my hon.
friend—still even at this the eleventh,
or it may be the twelfth, hour of this
Parliament, we rejoice to hail even so
alight an improvement in this matter.
I only wish I could push my congratu-
lations further, mail that the same im-
provement which has been manifested in
the expedition with which he has brought
down his Estimates had been displayed
in the preparation if 'those estimates; I
would that besides copying us in the
speed with which they were produced,
he had also copied us in the economy
with which they were framed. I would
that he had produced a policy that might
in some small degree justify the vaunts
with which he hos just concluded his ex-
position of that policy. Now, sir, it is
not always particularly easy to follow
the hon. gentleman. What between
the subtlety of the hem. gentleman's
logic and the remarkable complexity of
the hot). stentleusan s izr, nimar, what be-
tween the curious convolutions of his
sentences now and then, if I should
make tr mistal,:e and sometimes not clear-
ly understand what he means, I must say
I am not entirely to blame. and although
he may not have any very greet consid-
eration for us on this side of the House
— we do not generally receive it from
that side of the House— he ought. 1
think, to have seine little consideration
for those willintt and faithful followers
who are so ready accept and receive
every statement that hon. s!entleman
m'ly be pleased t•, snake, either this
year, nr the year before, or the, year be-
fore -that. Nw, the hon. gentleman
has elven 04 tu•nigat a new series of
keleidescepic views ..f the beauties of
the National Policy. If any of his
f (Hewers happen to he afflicted with a
sense of logic or cmd memories, they
must be seinewh tr Fueled to' reconcile
the position eecepied by that hon. gent-
leman to -night with the position which
that hon. gentle:mei has takes en many
previous occasions. sir, 1 think it
would he well that the hon. gentleman
should decide finally what his followers
are to. believe o.0 s nue • f these impor-
tant questions. Are we to understand,
as we understood frown that hon. gentle-
man net very In,: time ago, that it is a
great misfortune per the people of thie
country if the bxlance..1 trade be against
thein, er are we to understand that it is
a good thing if the balance of trade be in
their facer under certain circumstances,
or are we to understa nd,as I rather think
he would have us t. understand, that it
is a peel thing te have balance of
trade in our favor if we happen to
have a deficit. bat very bad thin_; in-
deed to have it in sur favor when hav-
ing it in •.ur favour would prevent us
having a surplus. Now, un the present
occasion, the lion. gentleman, although
on other •.ccasiens he was very loud in
this matter of the balance of trade, has
said nothing; aboatt the important fact
that the balance er trade is very serieua-
ty against the 1)•+minion ••f Canada for
the past year.' He was ideased to tell us
that he had an excess of set era( millions
of dollars ever the suits lie expected to
raise, but he left it somewhat dubious
whether an ex'evss of several millions ..f
dollars is to be held as a proof ef the
wonderful accuracy •,f his eittimnte•, • r
as a proof that he sue ee led in lois leap
in the (lark. He has left it a mystery to
us whether the real rirtne, and the real
rile,sine the Nati-nel Pehcy has be-
stowed aeon us. is. iia he told us three
years age, that it was to reduce the ma -
ports in every way, ••r whether the real
end abn•l I nrpo ie .i his National Policy
is to stimulate iwperts and thereby
create s st:rpdtts ' .\te we to understand
after perusing these figures, after leukins;
throusrh our public Ace .ants, that the
hon. gentleman holds it to he the best
prs.f possible of prudent statesmanship
that he has suceeedei1 in quite douOling
the taxes and burthens of the people of
Canada, and in ( uite doubling already
the expenditure of the people of Canada
within some thirteen years ( Are we to
u nderstand that the hon. gentleman still
continues of the same niind that it is de.
arable for us to take it out of the Amer-
icans. se he put it a few years ago, and
are we to leek upon this remarkable in-
crease which the last year's trade returns
show of the imp eta from the United
States as a peed ..1 the success of this
pelicy of taking it out of the Americana
e tells us that everything, or alm.•ec
everything, is ccheaper, now that we have
snore taxes arosed uton Amite every-
thing. is he prepared to follow that to
the logical mak, and pat en more taxes
so that we may ultimately get these
thiags for nothiwi ' The hoe gentle -
'man was load in explaining to the
House that a certain number of thous-
ands of hands, as to which I will my I
something preseetly, have been added to
oar population M his policy; but the,
hon. gentleman said nothing, for f11011101111which will preeeetly appear. &hust the 1
*soden. which his friends at any rate
charms to assert took }tape ender the
Administration of my hon. friend; o.r has
he got new light sprat thet subject 1
Ras he di.aowered that this pgreligious
exodus bas resulted according to the
townies in the remerk.hle circumstances
that the great Province of Quebec by the
einem has grown twie r as fast while my
bon. friend presided over the deeltinies
of the country as in the decade before.
Till axrlrlDITUax,
The hon. gentleman alluded most
gingerly to the fact that he had a ,"very
abort whilevery few years ago—
ILOhe, an no Miuutsr of Fivanoe, had
formally and ssoleunl,y stated his eon -
elation that $9$.500,000 were ample to
o�rry on the asks of the Government
of Qent;dn, That was his statement be-
fore. Now, 1 had that in the year just
closed he spent 186,500,000, or $20. 000-
000, if we include the sum spsiit on DU -
minion lands. I find he asks fur about
$47,000,000 for the service for the pres-
ent year, and we all bad him tell us
he expected to require 427,730,000 with-
out including supletuentary estimates,
without counting $450,000 far Donnie
lop lands fur the year 1882-83..
TM& aU•YLUa
It appears to une that the hon. gentle-
man will do well at another time to take
some opportunity to explain the trittng
contradictions which appear to be in-
volved in the several statements made
by him, and when the hon. gentleman
glories in the surplos he has got and
calls upon us to admire him because,
owing to circumetamces over which he
has no control, we have a 'surplus of
$4,000,000 or thereabouts to -defy; I, in
turn, ask him how that was gotOf
that, $1,100,000 is derived from those
two most odious and oppressive taxes,
which were never imposed in any civil-
ised country before, I believe, under
similar circumstances at least—the taxes
on breadstuffsand on fuel in a country
like this. And if we added the expendi-
ture on Dominion lands we would find
that, deducting these two taxes, which
ought never to be imposed, and which
could'only be defended by the must ex-
treme tiscal necessities, and adding a
sunt which, for the purposes of compari-
son at least, should be added, the hon.
gentleman's surplus of $4,000,000 would
shrink to $2,500,000. I can understand
and I ani quite prepared to admit, that
there are circumstances under which a
surplus is just cause for congratulation.
We have known in the past some such
circumstances. I remember very well
under the administration of the hon.
gentlemen opposite when without adding
une penny to the burdens of the people
of this country, from its natural growth
and increase,* surplus relatietly quite as
purge as this of which the hon. gentle-
men boasts was obtained by Sir Francis
Hincks. 1 admit that that was • fair
and just ground for congratulation.
Had this surplus been so obtained, I
would admitthst it was a fair and just
ground for congratulation; but what
does the reality show ? The reality
shows the must oppressive system of
taxation. The facts are these:—The
statements made by myself an my hon.
friend, which the hon. gentleman has
no doubt inadverently misquoted, have
been verified to the letter. Those state-
ments were thee:—I told the hon. Min-
ister thet if he aimed to obtain revenue
he would find his tariff was a total fail-
ure so long as the exports of the country
continue low and so long as
' there was no general improve-
ment, but that the ent our exports
increased, the moment that general im-
provement, which Iforesaw would short-
ly arrive, Dame, that moment the tariff
which he chose to aggregate would, with-
out any further burdening of the people
have produced fully as large a surplus as
the hen. gentleman has boasted of to -day
—at all events fully as large a surplus,
as I shall show, if you deduct those ob-
noxious duties on coal and •bread stuffs.
What did my hon. friend beside ole
state ! The Boa. member pointed out
what has since proved to be correct, that
whereas the hon. gentleman stated that
*ll he did Wes to add $2,000,000, he had
s.. grimly overloaded the taxation, and
had gone so far beyond what was actually
'required that this ts'iff would produce
87,000,000 instead of $2,000,000. The
facts were that the $7,000,000 which my
hon. friend stated would be produced,
I and more, were nuost unfair and oppres-
sire taxes taken out of the pockets of
the p•.•ple, when only $2.000,000 were
required.
readers AYt) EXPORTS.
New i will tell the hon. ventieman what
were the conditions, in niy judgment. at
all events, under which the National
' Policy might fairly claims to be credited
with this surplus and improvement. Let
' th.sse hon. gentlemen show, if they can,
i that those increased exports on which
i the whole increased ingaorts depend are
due to the National Policy. Let them
whew that the increased imports are due
to the Natimral Poli -y, and then I for
nay }}art will freely and fully admit that
• the National Policy has had something
to do with the increase of this surplus.
But, Mr. Speaker, it we find that facts
utterly and entirely contradict that ah -
surd assertion, that the exports have in-
creased from causes over which those
hon. gentlemen would exercise no mere
control than over the position of the
e. uinoxis—if we find they are due ab-
solutely and wholly to the increase in
the lumber trade, exports of animals aad
their products, and of agricultural pro-
duce, then I say those hon. gentlemen
stand condemned as imposters, who have
laid claim teen improvement whichtheir
policy was not able to prevent,but which
it certain) did nothing do create or sti-
mniate. What are the bread facts of the
ease ! They are throe:—That in 1879
we exported exclusive of bullion and
estimated short returns, $90,000,000
worth of products: that in 1880 we ex-
p .rted 070,000,000, and in 1881 very
nearly 081.000,000. Now, ser, how was
, that trade up : Why, intim years,from
1879 to 1881, our exerts of the fe este
res t ram $E1.260,000 t. • $'15.000,000:
.012.000.000 .•f that 420,000,000 were
due to the increased expovts .d lumber:
and also in the ease of animals and their
products the exports rose frons $14,-
000,000 to 021,8?.1,000. There, sir,
iyou have the whole isaervwse. Doer the
hon. member eapeel we weeks believe.
will he even resters to assert here. that
his policy has cestribeted to the Moralise !
of the exports .4 limber ne d animals
and their pr deete truss the Dowrieirm
If -he does. I wish that he or some of his ++'
friends would cxtdeseewd to show us 1
how. 1 shall show him aad dais Home,
and I think the owuntry. that what his
policy hes dose is that direction has
Men to retard and lapis* the growth of
those two crest indasstries, that the hon.
gentleman is not Petalled te ase iota of
credit for the Increase of *epochs which
have taken place, and out of whish the
impute have been paid. How does the
hon gentleman propose to deal with
these da, facts contained in the Trade
and Navigation Returns, and as well
known to him as to hots. members on
this side of tho House. but, pbl ,
sir, the hon. gentlentaa, as he dealt
with other difficulties, doss not deal
with them at all. The hon. gentleman
is, however, blessed with colleagues a
little more logical than himself, and I
will give to the House an extract from
a &peach made by one of his colleagues
in which an explanation is offered tend-
ing to show that the National Pokey,
the policy of taxing everything that the
producers of these articles use, did con-
tribute to increase our exports of lumber
and our exports of agricultural and ani-
mal products. On a certain occasion the
hon. Minister of Public Works was ban-
gnetted in the good city of Hamilton,
and after dinner the hon. gentleman was
good enough to explain how it was that
the N. 1'. had contributed to the in-
crease of these exports. Said he:—
'•The fact is that as soon as that great
policy was proclaimed, so great was the
immediate revival of confidence in the
people that they at once set to work to
plough re land, to grow more cr.ns,
and to raise more cattle.
Well, the hon. gentleman in order to
establish his friend's ase, found it ne-
cessary to assert this. ,But if the hon.
gentleman had been with me a few j
weeks later, when I read that wonderful
expositiou of the effects of the N. P. to
a couple of thousand of the best agricul-
turists •in Western Canada, and heard
the shouts of uncontrollable laughter
which greeted it, he would have under-
stood that, although logical, it was not
likely to be effect've—at any lute, with
the hard-headed farmers of Western
Canada When 1 asked those 2,000
farmers, numbering among them as gond
agriculturists as can be found in the
Dominion, and among whom were a
great many supporters of the Hon. Min-
ister of the Interior, whether there was
one among them who had been induced
by the immediate revival of confidence
to set to work and plough more land,
grow more crops, and mise more cattle,
not one could be found to stand up and
say he had grown a bushel more of grain
or a pound more of beef. The actual
fact is in direct contradiction of this in-
genious theory. Immediately on the
introduction of that policy, as every one
acquainted with Western Canada knows,
that was a large and lamentable exodus of
many of our best farmers the nigh the
whole western region --not, I am sorry
to say, to our, own North-West, but to
Dakota, Minnesota, and other portions
of the United States.
Mr. Plumb—And to Texas and Kan-
sas.
Sir Richard Cartwright—If' the policy
had any effect at all it wigs not to in-
crease the number of acres under plough,
or the amount of crops and cattle raised,
but sensibly and materially to dimish
them. I said, and I repeat, that the
hon. gentleman's tariff, as a revenue
tariff, was an utter failure as our exports
continued small. Take the revenue.re-
turns for 1879 and those for 1880, and
you will find deficits ranging front $2,-
000,000 to $1,500,000; and not until
these exports increased to the figure
which I named was there the slightest
sign of expansion or the slightest appear-
ance of the surplus of which the hon.
gentleman boasts. It is clear, and I
• think, clear to demonstration, that had
we had to -day the tariff which existed
in 1878 we would have had ample reve-
nue without adding one iota to the bur-
dens of the people. I invite the atten-
tion of the House to this simple fact.
In 1875 our total exports amounted ho
$67,500,000, in 1881 to $81,000,000.
Now it is known to all practical men
that the vulume of our imports, and con-
sequently our revenue, is necessarily re-
gulated by the volume of our exports
for the of the preceding year or two.
Therefore it is :las that if in 1881 we
exported, as we did export 014,000,000
worth more than in 1875, our revenue
under my tariff would have prtfortlon-
ately increased. What was the revenue
in 1875 1 The revenue from Oustnms
amounted to 015,361,000. Now, if yes
make your proportional allowance for the
very large increase of exports which took
place between 1881 and 1875, you will
see that 1s am stating the literal fact
when I ss that so far as•it is possible to
calculate in a matter of that kind, there
is not the slightest or remotest doubt
that with such an eflpert as we had in
1881 that tariff would have produced at
least $18,000,000, and that without at
all burdening the people. But the hon.
gentleman was gond enough to allude,
although in a gingerly fashion, as I
said, to the fact that our imports at pre-
sent were slightly in excess of our ex-
ports. I dare say the House will rec..l-
lect that in a public document emanat-
ing from a brother colleague, great credit
was taken, and groat stress laid upon
the fact. that, although there was a defi-
cit for the first time in the history of the
Dominion, the exports in 1880-1 think,
it was—had exceeded our imports. Well
I am not going to delay the House by
entering into a disquisition on the merits
of the balance 1,f trade theory. I
am, I confess, myself of the opinion,
which does not appear to be shared by
hon., gentlemen opposite, that if we are
lucky enough to exchange $63,000,000
or $70,000,000 worth of goods fur $80,-
000,000 or $90,000,000 worth we are
largely the gainers by tho transaction.
That is a theory however which ggeentle-
men like Smith, Mills, Peel. 01adstuoe,
Cobden, Bright, and Fawcett are still
deluded enough to entertain, but it is
not th. theory of the how. Minister of
Finance. That hon. gentleman enter-
tains quite a difeeent ides. First of all
let me correct one error into which he
has fallen. The bows. gentleman has
chosen to MMelode in the relative amount
of exports and imports what are celled
short returns is talawd ports. Now, i
do not thing he is quite right in includ-
ing those for two reasces
Air Leeman! Tilley—i did not fasted*
them.
Air Richard Cartwright—Those abort
return ere bat a ries mater of guess
work.
Mr. Mackenzie Sowell --Has not that
been practised for the past ten years i
Air Richard Cartwright—i an quite
aware rd that, and in soaking my state-
ments i hare usually called attention to
the fact AM it is a neer* matter of sur-
mise. Msf the., is a apeeial reason why
this should not be omitted in just now.
As every matt who lives on the frontlet
knows, thew exists now, what. did net
exist before, an enormous nupurta'ieu
of smuggled goods into this country,
gaits ss much as any short returns from
inland ports in the United States. Tak-
ing wbatareknowu andprovedwe« export-
ed, and when weknew and proven we ex-
portedleaving out short returns on the
,
one
snd and
un
other, yuu will find et the balance the
f
trade is lust $10,000,000 against ua
Let es read what the hon. Minister 4
of Finance *id on this subject three
years ago. I quote from his own budget
speech of 1879. He said :—
"There are other difficulties. The
volume of imports has not much dimin-
ished. Regarding the matter as I do,
I think it is to be regretted that the
volume of imports has not been mate-
rially reduced."
This was at a time when tl e value of
imports was $80,030,000. I look upon
large imports ever since the Dominion
was organized, showing a large balance
of trade against ua, as one of the causes
44 the
ubles with which' we have to
Ebu end one of the difficulties than it is
our duty to remedy. Inverts have
been decreasing to a certain extent, but
are still very large, showing distinctly
and clearly iu any judgment that the
ought to be still further diminished. It
appears to me that we should turn our
attention to the best means of reducing
the volume of our imports from all parts
of the world. Thetis his policy expound-
ed in 1879, when our imports amounted
to nearly $80,000,000; but we find that
now our imports, exclusive of bullion,
amount to $90,488,000, the hon. gentle-
man has not a.word to say about the
duty of the Government to remedy this
state (1 things of possible. About it
being apparent to him that we ought to
turn our attention to the best means of
reducing the volume of our imports
from all parts of the world, it may be
news, or it may not be news, to the hon.
gentleman to know that in the Mother
Country, to which he was just inviting
us to direct our attention in connection
with some other matter, during the last
twenty five years, the balance of trade
against England was something like
£2,000,000,000 aterliug, or $10,000,000,-
000. That he will find,if 'he chooses tolook
up the\English trade and navigation re-
turns. 'It might interest him also to
know that in spite of that the English
imports of bullion were about $500,000,-
000 more durithe same period than
the English eorts . of bullion. Now
I am in no respect concerned about this
same disastrous balance of trade, but I
do subntit, air, that unless there has
been a total reversal of the laws which,
according to the hon. gentleman, ought
to govern our conduct in these matters
then i suppose that this 810,000,000
against ua is a most deplorable fact, and
the hon. gentleman ought, as he said he
would, toturn his best atrentiun to remedy
thisterribletlow of imports from all parts
of the world. Sir, the hon. gentlemen
has one ground, and only one, for con-
tenting these statements. If the 'hon.
gentleman be prepared to show that he
and his colleagues were really the au-
thors of the good crops which have in-
creased our exports, and, which is also
an important factor in the case, that
they have contrived that there should
be bad crops elsewhere, • and so o add to
the prices, which we receive for our
gala, then I would say that the hon.
1gentleman had made out a gooal c sae forhis N. P. ;but not till then. Unless he
is prepared to declare that the p great ex-
ensiun of business in the United States,
to which an extremely large proportion
of his surplus revenue is due, was caus-
ed by his having taxed considerably
more every article which the Americans
`had to send us. When we speak of the
j injury inflicted by this over -taxation, I
would call the attention of the House
and the hon. gentleman to this well
!known fact; whenever you attempt to
raise a revenue by heavy indirect taxa-
• tion, you must of necessity add very
largely to the burden ..f the people over
i and above the amount which goes into
the Treasury. That there is no poasi-
hility of avoiding, nor will all the calcul-
ations which. the hon. gentleman has
I given in the slightest degree affect a fact
so well proven as that. Now, air, it is
'not a point which necessarily militates
against the National Policy pc, s.. It is
!conceivable, it may ho argued, that se
1 great are the tither advantages of that
policy that it is worth our while to sub-
msit togs taxation of thirty or forty or
'fifty millions in order to enjoy it, but
there can be no excuse for concealing
t the self-evident fact that wheneder you
!raise a revenue by indirect taxation you
.ti hamper commerce in a thousand
! ways; you so interfere with profitable
!production that you add most enor-
mously to the cat to the taxpayer; and
that when you put $4,000,000 into the
!treasury, even under an orlinao—
revenue tariff, when the rate of tax•
ation is not high, von certainly take at
least $5,000 000 out of the pocket of the
taxpayer. When you do it. under a
• tariff like this it is almost impossible t.,
estimate the total amount, but it is cer-
tainly vastly in excess of twenty-five per
cent. True, there is the convene to
thtt. After you have raised your taxes
to a certain point you may then, without
fear, go on and add as much as you
please. But except in very few eases
that has not been dime by til, and my
position is briefly this: Although it is
true the hon gentleman has secured
$4,000,000 of a surplus in the Treasury,
it is none the less true that under his
tariff he has done that at an enc ernes
cost to this country—a cast, i believe,
of not less than $8,000,000 or $9.000,000
—and I will tell him for one thing, amt
will show him presently. that in one ar-
ticle alone, that of sugar, he has taken
K000,000 net of the !esthete of the
people, and put $!,600,000 iwto the Trea-
sury.
Ift'PLaID goer OF Milo.
Nnw, I will take two special pouts
toughed upoa by that bow. gentleman.
Mire of all I propose to refer to s gttee-
tion of great ietetwt to the masses of
this community, end that is the 'ready
increased ant of livings. Noir. sir, the
hon. gentleme % and his friends are apt
to deal with the q.setinn by xane& as -
mortices, not giving details,as indeed,
he dealt with it to -night. Tey do not
appear to be able to see that these argu-
ments are ssK•awatradictniy. i1 these
snot are able to produce queen thiwas as
cheaply a they weld elsewhere. what
need have we, or what need have they,
for a protective tariff? (Rear, hear.)
ca
Why, sir, the se is clear. It is be-
cause, and only beanies, Canadian
manufacturers, as • rub, cannot pro-
duce as cheaply as these of other coun-
tries that they require to shut out bI a
tariff wall the products of other coun-
tries. Probably the ion. gentleman
dues not hear • the cumplsiste d the
poor. He does not hear the complaints
of then with small fixed incomes. The
boa. gentlemen has been of late consort-
ing with men who are Waking their
thousands and tens of thousands in the
operation of this tariff—(hear, h'aar)—
who have the greatest pussible desire,
and I fear the greatest possible inclin-
ation, to prevent that lion. gentleman
frunm appreciating fully the mischief lie
has done, and in concealing frons him
the facts which he ought to know, and
awns of which at least I hope to bring
to his attention to-niglit. The hon.
gentleman cannot see how ise has in-
creased the coat of living; the hon. gen-
tleman does not know apparently that
iu every yard of coarse tweed the poor
man uses his tariff compels him to pay
25 or 30 or 40 per cent, not perhaps
more than in 1878—which has very little
to do with the matter—but 25 or 30 or
40 per cent, more than that same article
could be obtained for elsewhere if it sear
not for his tariff The hon. gentleman
cannot understand how he has added 0o
the cwt of living when on every yard .•E
coarse Dutton the than who co sumer it
is obliged to pay one-third mure at the
fair market price than if there were no
tax and no tariff to pay. He cannot un-
derstand how the man who purchases a
pair of coarse blankets finds the cost 01
living increased, when he is compelled
to pry GO per cent, snore than.the ar-
ticle would Dost could be purchase it in
bond without the duty paid. He can-
not understand how the cost ..f living is
increased, when on every gallon of call
oil the poorest man consumes he his to
pay from lb to 20 cents mure than it
could be obtained for but for his tariff,
and but for the absurd and mischievous
regulations which in the interest of a
monopoly he bas imposed en it. He
cat,nut understand how it cusses to pass
that the cost of living has increased,
though he knows that on every barrel of
sugar weighing 300 lbs., the public have
to pay $f) more than they would pay if
there were no taxes at apt. The hen.
gentleman cannot- see this, he cannot
understand it, he merely denies the
fact. I venture to say that if in the
course of his peregrinations through
the country. he will call on my hon.
friend beside me (Mr. Mackenzie,) when
he happens to be in Sarnia, and if he
will go across the river to Port Huron,
my hon. friend will be able to show hies
in the course of half an hc.r's walk a
variety of shoos in which he will be
able to . procure those articles at the
prices I have rained, and much cheaper
than he could purchase the same arti-
cles on this side of the border. t tr if
he will accompany my hon. friend from
South Grenville (Mr. Wiser,. sir my
hon. friend from Kingston Mir._ (;unn,7
either of these gentlemen will be able to
show him a Precisely similar state id
things. 1 would like to ask that hili.
gentleman whether it ever occurred to
hint why it is that people amugele goods
across the lines. What extreme and
absurd felly it weu,141 be fur ' t man to
run the risk• of the penalties; r vi.led
against' einvgeline if he could ..basun
goods as cheaply in Canada ale he could
in the United States.' I tell Lint this,
1and I make soy statement ..n the author -
I ity of Inc of the tartest importers If
dry-go.nls in the D o:t:i:ri•",n, that there
are merchants iu the 1'nite l St ttea who
are preptre.l to deliver e..na ie ('anode
to any 4.1 the hon. gentleama'g's suppoat.
en who want to tern act Lorient penny
under the tariff at the rate of softie
ten per cent, • higher than the -in -
1 voice prices in the United States. but
1 they do not calculate to p.y the 35 er
40 per cent. duty which the hen. gen-
tleman s tariff levies open them.
THE. OSL TAY.
As I said before, all these thin. ::re•
mysterious to my hon. friend apparent-
ly, but when the hen. gentleman cones
t.. deal with the duty- ear c .al. then all
the lien. eentlennan's wanted astuteness
returns. He is prepareillto explain that: he
is pre;.ared to do mere, to illustrate his
explanation, and a most remarkable 11-
lustreti-,n it is. Not long ago I saw a
quotation from an eloquent speech of
his, in which, dealing with this .1uestien
of coil, he gave an explanation not diff-
ering very much from 'that with which
he favoured us a little tune alto. R•hat
the hon. gentlelnal say-. in, the matter
of this luny nn coal is: I hail my diffi-
culties once, but now everything is plain.
Sometimes the consumer pays the duty,
aid u.metimes the producer. The hon.
gentleman is like the student in the old
days who was asked whether the sun
went round the earth or the earth went
round the sun, and who compromised
the matter by declaring that s•'snetinaes
the earth went round the sun and some-
times the sun went round the
earth. It is much to be regretted
that all have not the advantage to
secure the nerviees ..f that student
amongst us to -night. I am convinced
that, under the guidance ..f the hon.
gentleman, Le could be trained into a
most admirable Fiunce Minister. There
is the right raw material, the accommo-
dating nature, the reluctance to push
things to extremes, which so eminently
characterize that hon. gentletnan; and
I ata prepared to endorse Dim to some
extent. I am prepared to admit that
the consumer pays the duty lust as often
as the earth gore r.und the sun, *red
that the producer pays the duty just es
often as the sun goes nand the earth;
but, sir, doctors and even colleague
will differ oh thew questions now and
then, aad i have observed that the bon,
re atlemaw'a eolb.gaes in dealing` with
this question of the duty en cal have
cot always taken the view that he takes.
We are awes that not long ago an elec-
tion took place in the Provisce of Nova
Senb•, in which the Minister of Rail-
ways took a very active part, and this
was bow he explained the dety on coal
to a listening audience at Picoe:—"The
pdiey of the Liherwh," said the hon.
gentlemen 'tis to take the dety of coal
and saddle on yew, the people of Nova
Semis, your share of the $$00,000 now
paid into the revenue by the one and a
half millions of Ontoriing." And Is.
went en the day after to say that the
people of Ontario paid $4(11.000 t i ease,
coil ccaal, of which t&xes Nova ilautia j s
relieved,aamd Mr. Carotichsel,saidthe hug.
gentleusan, is auziuus that Nova Scuba
shall be saddled with i•. That is a
statesutaulihe utterance—est utterance
caleulated to remove entirely all those
fears of disunion and sectionalism which
the hon. Minister .f Finance ago justly
dlored shd be excited ms( ur.
p.eppsslahiun.oulAnd I think, If•I antououta
mistaken, the Minister of Railways
went on to paint out to his Nova &titian
audieaoe that Outario lutenist& were
greatly at discount in this scatter of
coal. He said, and laid truly, that
'you can get coal at the pit's mouth for
fifty or sixty cents a on whale they have
to pay $4.114 or $.i a tun, and we have
given you puple of Nova Scotia au ad-
ditional protection of 50 or 00 cents
in addits.n to the natural produc-
tion at $4.50 to, enable you to deal.
with these million and a half of (lumber-
ers of the earth of the Province of On-
tario." Other gentlemen who are de-
serving of the notice of this House have
a still different story to tell with respect
to this coal duty. Hero is what the
President of the largest railway at pre-
sent existing iu Catued& bas to say:_
"Materials
&y:—
"Materials of a,l kinds," says Sir henry
Tyler. "are deere4 than they were ever
before, and in p articular the price of
cal has increased to the event of the
duty imposed. He could horsily con-
ceive of anything more injurious in a
nation like Canada than to place a duty
oar coal." That was the opiuiuu of the
president of the Grand Trunk Railway—
slightly different from the Minister u[
Finance—and as his company pity' some
850,000 or $1;0,000 of that impost, be
may be suPe»ed te know something, at
all events, of what he was talking about.
I would like to know what those shiver-
ing wretches who fare to experience abs
extremity of our cold winter weather,
when the thermometer Is twenty degrees
below zero, have hi any with regard to
to the benevolence which adds fifty or
sixty cern* t , the price of each ten of
coal they purchase. I cannot better un -
elude my remarks on the subject than b
giting.to the House a resolution which
was iutroaluced by a very .distinguished
and nuah)e c/l a of the hon. gentle-
man— a matt wholooms large is the pub -
lie eye—no less a person than the pun,
sent Speaker of the Senate.' On this
quests m, some few yeah ago. the Hos.
Mr. Macpher.o.n moved in the Agitate:—
"That in the opinion of this Buns*,
by subjecting to duty of Customs ea pro
red to the Bill—bre•dstufds of any
d, or rice, awl, and coke, salt, or any
of the natural products ennmeratd in
schedule C of the present tariff, and
which at present are admitted into Can-
ada free of duty—a principle would be
partial in its operation between the Pro-
vinces constituting the Dominion, that
would injuriously disturb trade and tend
to engender sentiments of -sectionalism
and disunion in the minds of the people
of Canada"
i Well, sir, we en this side nI the House
may be pardoned if we entertain some
doubts as to which of the three --the
President of the Senate, the Hon. Min-
i iaterof Finance, or the Hon. Minister
of Iaailw•ays—hae exactly got at the true
1 inwardness of this same duty on coal.
The Hon Minister of Finance tinds it
itsipo.ssible to see how this duty can be
unfair to the mass of the poulation.
Well, sir, the hen. gentleman, observe,
when be wants to ascertain how a duty
is "tar;; t•,.effect the consumer, how it is
_eine t» affect the great mass of the
1 penile, wisely goes to the manufacturer
of the article which is to be protected.
111-11e finds out what the producer think.;
but what the consumer thinks or feels
appears. and poerhaps is, to hila a matter
f cotut,..ratise indifference. Now, sir,
I have ponsued, I ata about to say, a
I different plan. When I want to ascer-
tain hew a system of taxes affects the
poorer portion of this community, I en-
c!oavorel to moo tain from those of them
who keep accurate accounts of their do-
uaestic ex oenditures what sums they
spend on the various articles which are
taxed, and in that way I think we can
fins' out with some degree of precision t ,a
what is the true incidence of the hon.
gentleman's tariff. Now, sir, I have
here two cases --one of a man earning
about 83(0 a year, usual to about $1 per
diem, and another of an artisan who re-
ceives *lout 8400 a year, equal to about
81.30 per diem. Let us see how these
oven are taxed. I rind that in the first
instance thep are obliged to expend some
$40 or $50 in the purchase of six tons of
sap; I find that they are obliged to. pur-
chase about six barrels of flour, &bopt
lbtl pounds of sugar, and to expend for
clothing about 862 for a family of six;
and they will consume sane 14 gallons
of coal oil in the course of a year. Now,
I let us see how em an income of $400 a
year these taxes will foot up. There is
a specific tax on flour equal to $3, and a
I specific tax on coal equal to $3, on the
coal oil they use they are obliged W pay
at least 82.50 more than but for the
operation of the tax they could obtain
that article for elsewhere, while on .their
cl•.thing, which is necessarily, the largest
taxable item, taking the average of the
hon. gentleman's tang it is impossible
' that they should pay less than $21 a
year. Their sugar arts them at least
0b in taxes, and if we put on the averse
allowance for excisable articles, we find
that, without taking into somas* the
, rest variety of articles of food,
1 touts, 1*, ,ks, and other minor o
which every wrking man uses—os an
s
I .,
imam, (d $400 a year the absolute
known Dominion taxes amount to not
less than $43.50, not taking into account
1 municipal taxes, which mast average at
least $10 a year more. In the eases trey
1 in the case of a family M five. hiving on
1 an income of $300 • year, I And, taDow-
ing for socio taxes, that the tax-
i salon is not lees than $3? a year, net
counting municipal taxes. h may be,
sir, to the Hon. Minister of Finance a
matter of perfect insigniflsene that a
man who receives an income of $300 •
shuold be d o
to
year the stent dtaxej37, andby hie tha1R Doobs enstiniett
who has an income of $400 s year should
be taxed t. the extent of $43 for De-
miniown purposes; but i doubt extremely
whether these men themselves are not
beginning to wake up to the fact that
that they are taxed most oppressively
and anjostly ander the tariff herneeeea
n�the hon. rathsetee. Mr, owe et
theme the , a mac some ltetN edema -
Gen, wrote to ahead whom i em
to connect these facts—and I wit)w
the Ron Winisir ryf F'itnaniewes • vd
x