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The Huron Expositor, 1966-04-28, Page 1614,4 ' 1 1%it0i EXPOS401k. $EA.FORTH, 0 T., APR, 28.. 196. 001 Arbi ".( COrdinued from Page 9) audience stated that they had Inca been petitioned properly and were not prepared to par- ticipate at this time. "The peo- ple, of Bayfield are sympathetic, to this cause here before you," he stated. The Judge suggested that the Bayfield people present get together and clarify what they wished to say during the adjournment, Later the Reeve of Bayfield stated that there would be a petition froth .Hayfield and an- other area to join too in the near future. Judge Hetherington said that the only interestat this time was for the Bayfield people to provide evidence that if the Seaforth union took place, what adverse effect it would have on School Area No. 1, of which Bayfield is a part. Brig. FrederickClift, of Bayfield, took the stand and de- clared the appellants from Har- rator purhey and Egmondville are of concern to Bayfield, because costs had been discussed togeth- er,for the school. He said: "We have a vital concern here." Speaking on rural populations he told of the two well known studies made by the Ontario Hydro and the Bell Telephone Company which show a reduc- tion educetion of one to two per cent per year in rural areas. He said he came from Saskatchewan and when the revolution in agricul- ture started there, growth began in the villages and towns. He stated the normal process there was to locate schools in urban centres. The area is tending to cash crop economy rather than livestock. Mr. Clift emphasiz- ed he was there as a ratepayer only, not as an official. He went on to say he attended a meeting in Mr. Burrows' office in Exeter on April 8, 1965, where he dis- covered the feeling that there was a, trend toward a county CLASSES NOW FORMING on Steel, Spanish or Bass GUITARS Guitars Rented For 20 Week Trial No High Pressure On Sales HENRY PULSIFER Instructor PHONE 482-7166 For Information and Appointment PLACE YOUR ORDER NOW FOR AGRICO FERTILIZER • FREE SOIL -TESTING SERVICE • BAG AND BULK DELIVERY SERVICE ANHYDROUS AMMONIA Contact your local dealer or BRUCEFIELD SERVICE DEPOT A. J. Mustard, RR 1, Varna -- Phone 482-7435 ROBERT TAYLOR, Sales Representative RR .3, Clinton -- Phone 482-9144 Anhydrous Ammonia Representative HAUGH BROS., Brucefield --- Phone 527-0927 \� . �•, •r s PAY ALL THOSE N. 5 •:16GET A FRESH START WINTER BILLS A CLEAN UP LOAN from your Credit Union can straighten out your finances and take a load off your mind. Interest never exceeds a penny a month on each dollar you still owe.. , Life Insured Free. Travellers' Cheques Available To Members Only CLINTON COMMU.NITY. CREDIT UNION LIMITED 482-3467 1 SMITH'S SPECIALS FOR Thursday, Friday and Saturday Tulip Coloured MARGARINE 3-1b. Pkg. 870 Champion DOG FOOD 4 15 -oz. Tins 490 Chicken, Liver, Beef Premium Fancy SOCKEYE SALMON -7% -oz. Tin • • 59¢ York -- 2 -Ib. Jar PEANUT BUTTER Only 79 PRODUCE Sunkist Oranges -138's 2 doz. 39 Tinder Large Stalks Florida Celery ti • each 23C Louisiannt. Yarns : • 2 lbs. 29 FOR I ADDITIONAL SPECIALS SEE -LONDON PREE,PRESS THURSDAY Phone 5274990 .FOOD MARKETS. 'Ere Delivery Hears Concluding Evidence educational system. At the meeting also there were repres- entatives from several areas of the county. Mr. Clift felt there was flexibility in county educa- tion. However, he stated the re- sult of the meeting was that People are not ready for this growth in the educational sys- tem yet. He felt we should be taking steps in this direction. The study in Huron County has not been carried out too well. He had a suggestion from Eg- mondville and Harpurhey, that if the judge does not grant the detachment, they ,could try and be incorporated in the Town of Seaforth. He said ' that if they should incorporate with Sea - forth, Bayfield would be affect- ed costwise. Judge Hetherington stated that he feels when annexation takes place, then people jump the- borders and build outside again. Mr. Clift said as a former teacher he is intensely inter- ested in education. He declar- ed the most important thing to- day is to 'try to better educa- tion., especially for rural chil-' dren. He feels the impoftant element is not just planning, TV, etc., but the teacher is 'the essential part. The team sys- tem of training as being car- ried out in the Armed Forces in England is marvelous. He said he had delved.' into this team teaching and it , is Some- thing worthwhile. He stated that the teachers in the eight -room school in Sea - forth have higher qualifications than the union school in Ho - wick. He feels that teachers would rather teach in an 'urban school rather than commute., Mr. Clift said he doubted the difference between a 15 -room school and a 16 -room school which Mr. Kinkead stressed: "Mr, Kinkead has admitted to me that no matter how big a school is, you • have a certain room that will have more than one grade," stated Mr. Clift. Judge Hetherington asked Mr. Clift whether he feels that un- der present legislation, if , Eg- mondville and Harpurhey are detached, would it affect Bay- field? Mr. Clift replied that he could see it having no effect at all on Bayfield; that they would be happy and would benefit themselves. Mr. Clift continued that at one time we believed in Bay- field that it would be possible in setting up of a larger area to have a four -room school in Bayfield—not .graded,but;;-;•.ac ceptable—as well as having a school at Brucefield. He feels the particular needs of Egmond- ville and Harpurhey would be met by merger with Seaforth. When Bayfield . council discuss- ed this, they wondered' whether to pass a resolution or not, and finally decided to pass it, for the setup of a large area and also at the same tithe passed a resolution to keep the four - room school in Bayfield. • We had hoped what Mr. Burrows proposed would come across. Minister Agrees. Judge .Hetherington gave per- mission to Mr. Hunter to ask Mr. Clift some. questions. Mr. Hunter: "Have you had any Communications from the Honourable William Davis re- garding your four -room school in Bayfield?" Mr. Clift: ",The proposal came down in a letter from- the, De- partment of Education that Bay- field should be" allowed to re- tain..-.lheir two -room school in operation under" Stanley School Area, and if populatic justi- fied an increase 'in size of the school, permission would be, given." Judge Hetherington asked the date of the letter from -Mr, Dav- is and was told it was August, 1965. Mr. Clift added that in - fairness to Mr. Davis, he must add that Mr. Davis had said that the Area School Board would have to agree. Mr. Murphy asked Mr. Clift: "You are in agreement with one central board, but you are not in agreement with one school in that area. Do you agree there are advantages of a two -room school over a 16 - room school? Are you in favor of a two -room school?" "No;" replied Mr. Clift; "we have turned down the sugges- tion -of a two -room school for a four -room school. At Brucefield we envision a 16 -room school." Mr. Murphy: "I1 you add' two to Bayfield and four to Seaforth, then this leaves you an eight - room school at Brucefield. You can't get a grant for a library for 'an eight -room school." Mr. Clift said he believed • a library could be Secured to be used for the area and the books divided• up among the schools and traded as needed. Mr. Murphy said that none of these schools would be large enough • for an Opportunity Class. Mr. Clift thought they could be taken to one school. Mr. Murphy: "You talk about the category of the teachers in Seaforth. Otte of the reasons you have trouble getting teach- ers for one -room school"s is that they prefer larger schools. Wouldn't you agree with Me that if you break up the school area you would have trouble getting teachers in the broken areas?" Mr, Clift replied -that they foresaw no trouble getting good teachers for a four -room school in Bayfield. Mr. Murphy: "What is bes for Huron Area No. 1, Mr Clift?" Mr. Clift: "I believe who is good for minorities."elieve "Mr. Clift, do you b a higher salary schedule would attract more teachers" "Indeed I do,°' replied Mr. Clift. "Brigadier, you feel there i an advantage in children walk ing to school, but some chi dren would have to be bused to school at Brucefieid regard less," said Mr. Murphy Mr. Murphy asked about the nt the disproportionate amou t ay over rural parents must p r Mr. Clift the -urban parents, and t agreed that something should be done about this type of situ - 4 Mr. Murphy: "Mr. Clift, you wpuld be in favor of this group school breaking attay, a larger1 in Seaforth, a larger one in Hayfield, a graded school h Hensel Brucefield, perhaps 1 might take some?" "Yes," re- plied Mr. Clift. The next person who volun- teered to speak for Bayfield was introduced by the Reeve of Hay- field as Mr. G. W. Smith, of Bayfield School Board. Mr Smith said he was not speak- ing for the Board, 'but as a pri- vate person. He said t peo- ple talk about a school, but he thought they should talk about a school system. " "I think we have had two systems of educa- tion—one rural, one urban. In cities, the students have certain things, such as .•hn�_.egonom- ics and workshops that we can't provide. The cities bus their children- around for these fa- cilities. Perhaps we could have these facilities available on a co-operative . basis." Mr. Smith said he did not like to see this school placed in a -sparsely populated.area. The fewer children we bus, the cheaper. He more study should be made. Judge Hetherington: " in a period of, -transition, but do you suggest we do no Mr. Smith said that w what he recommended. Mee `Al Ked Tave ed home front school. Mr. Sin- t namon told of two other chil- dren involved in accidents—one with a broken arm and one t with a broken. leg. Mr. Hunter: "Did one of your children contract an infectious disease?" Mr. Sinnamon explained that his daughter had contracted in- s fectious hepatitis from the - school; also a niece who 1at- tended the school, and a nephewn who was pre-school. This hap- ` ped in the fall of 1965, when five other children from Wrox- eter had hepatitis and in other villages and homes similar cas- es occurred. Mr. Hunter asked about Iunch- es at the school. Mr. Sinnamon replied that he felt it was dif- ficult to prepare lunches to send with a child. He said they were not given a hot drink at the achool. He preferred them to have a:.hot meaL Questioned about bus times, he replied they boarded the bus at 8:25 a.m. and arrived at school at 8:45. He told of one occasion last winter when his children had to wait until 9:15 a.m. from a quarter past eight, in the bitter cold when a bus was delayed. The parents were not notified the bus would be late. Mr. Murphy: "What is your -complaint?" Mr. Sinnamon said he felt the accident to the boy's teeth should not have happened, at least not twice. For the number of children in the playground, he felt there was not enough supervision. He stated that by having so many children from so many different communities, the hepatitis .. was spread throughout the whole township. Sum Up Evidence Mr. Hunter summed up the evidence favoring a change in area. A part of Tuckersmith wish- es to leave the Area School Board and join with Seaforth. Harpurhey is different from Eg- mondville. All children -now walk' to school from Harpur- hey and will continue to do so. In Egmondville, they use shut- tle bus service to take children to various schools. If they went to Seaforth school they would have to be bused. Buses are an expensive part of education. If we can avoid busing 100 chil- dren, this means quite a sav- ing. We must think of the chil- dren:. -Where will they get the best education? They would get it if "they have an addition to" the Seaforth school, with a kin- dergarten room and an auxil- iary class.. We have heard the evidence of half a dozen parents and they all say.they wish their children to go to -school in Sea - forth. They do not want them m bused; they do not wish the in an area not built •up. They want them to join in the social life of the Community,—youth activity work, skating lessons, music lessons, etc. Brucefield has no medical ser- vices nearer than Clinton, or perhaps Hensall. There is.not sufficient shelter at Brucefield if children are snowbound. Seaforth says they are will- ing to take the children in; their furanoe room is fine for enlarging; Iarid is available to enlarge .the playground.. The bus routes have�.been..stu- died. The distance from Bay- field to Brucefield is 13 miles. Fifteen minutes are 4llowed to - make the 13 miles. We have also been told by Mr. urphy that he does not permit his bus- es to be driven over 50 miles per hour. When Mr. Hunter suggested it would be impossible to go from Brucefield to Bayfield in 15 minutes, Judge Hetherington interrupted to say: •• ."Another five minutes is not much in our • In 'voting, Mr..Alderdice and Mr. Wilson were- elected by a small vote and when the vote is broken down it appears that the vote for the defeated can- didates was four to one from the polis near Seaforth. They want their children to go to Seaforth. A petition was given to all voters in Seaforth area giving costs of education, not knowing where this paper came from. That people did not wish their children sent away from the area to another school is quite evident from the vote. According to lir. Forsyth, this -designated area forms a strong minority. Assessment of this area is between one-third and two-fifths of the whole township, • Mr. Hunter continuing, said Mr. McGregor talks about his high opinion of his office and he sees only black and white, but there are shades of grey and they must be recognized. Rural areas are declining in population; population has tend- ed to shift to hamlets from farm area, such as Egmondville, Har- purhey and Brucefield. With a school in Brucefield there will be a shift in population to Brucefield, and this 'will hap- pen to Harpurhey and Egmond- vine .if a good school is near. Population will spread ,out to outlying areas. School Area 1 is- not the•most economical plan; there are very few children in one area on the `boundary line, and possibly hildren along this •linea could have to thought We are thing?" as not nn Mr. Hunter called Mr. For- syth. Mr. .Murphy asked per- mission to be able to get' wit- nesses to match any . new evi- dence brought out at this time. Mr. Hunter: "Mr. Forsyth, yesterday I asked • Mr. McGre- gor if he were at a meeting at the Red Tavern and he did not remember being there. Do you -remember such a meeting?" -Replied Mr. Forsyth: "I can recall from memory that at the Red Tavern, probably in Novem- ber, 1965, there was such a meeting. There were members of various councils there. Mr. Burrows was there. Mr. Kin- kead could mot find the Red Tavern School." "Were any minutes taken at this meeting?" "Yes, b -•took the minutes, •but I have not got them now. They would be..turned over • to the new secretary," "What took place at this meeting?" asked Mr. Hunter. "To determine if school area approval was to •be given for one school—we were in a quandry." "Was a resolution passed at that meeting?" "Not to my knowledge." • Mr. Murphy: "Was a letter written • to the Department of "I Education?" Mr. Forsyth: "Not that 1 am aware of." Mr. Hunter: "Was any deci- sion reached at that meeting?" ' Mr. Forsyth`: "Not that I am aware of." Mr. Dalton was ealled again, Mr. Hunter: "Were you at that meeting?". "Yes, I was," He stated he represented the Public School Consultative Committee. When asked what the meet- ing was for, he replied: "Meet- ing was to decide whether they went further or not on the ques- tion of a new school. If approv- al for a central school had not come through, they wished to dissolve the joint board and go back to County Council to form separate boards." "Who called the 'meeting?" asked Mr. Hunter. "I don't know. Perhaps Mr. Ethering- ton; he was chairman of the board. • Mr. Elgin Thompson notified me." When asked about the peti- tioning, Mr. Dalton said there was a petition from Tucker - smith to join Seaforth, but none from Tuckersmith to join Hen- sel'. Mr. John Sinnanion was call- ed by Mr. Hunter. He said he came to Seaforth on Good Fri- day, 1966, but had lived in How- iek 'prior to that day. Accidents In School Mr. Hunter asked Mr. Sine - man about accidents In the Howick school, ' and inquired- about Mr. Sinnamon's children. Mr. Sinnamon said he'had a son, 9, and a daughter, 6. He told how last }tall at noon hour, his boy had fallen or been pushed and had one tooth knocked out. He was not notified until the child returned from school. Then, he said, on the boy's last day 'at school,• the day before Good Friday when they moved to Seaforth, he was involved in another accident at school when another tooth was half broken off, about 2:30 to 3:00 p.m. Again the parents were not notified until the child return- c be taken from both sides of the road on the boundary line. This will have to be investigated more closely. Hearing what we have heard of the evidence from the Eg- mondville a n d Harpurhey groups, they had to speak on an individual basis. I feel by gall- ing a representative group from these groups, they did not speak as a parent only. Mr. David - son's evidence was not whether he wanted his children going to a certain school, but it was on the type of crop he had. There were no individuals call- ed as individuals outside the area from my friend's side. I know, Your Honour, you are not in favor of petitions, but the people who signed this pe - tion did it in good faith. There are added benefits that Seaforth children will get if their school is upgraded. In dol- lars and cents I cannot give too good a picture of whether building a 19 -room schoql in Brucefieid, or building on at Seaforth is better in spreading costs in a municipality. The savings bus -wise will help the mill rate. The Separate School Board has indicated they will enter into an agreement to jointly bus children with the Seaforth Public School Board. I think Seaforth school has been collecting .$50 per year per pupils. The Area Board has an obligation to these children to provide educational facilities. Mr. Dalton says there is an- other application from the southwest area around Hensall •in the mail now, and Brigadier Clift indicated his group at Bay- field is not •ready td give up yet. The people in the designated area around Harpurhey and Eg- mondville should be given the privilege to leave School Area No. 1 and make arrangements with the Seaforth School Board, Mr. Hunter concluded. 'Suggest Personal Reasons Mr. Murphy said he repres- ented the Townships of Stanley and "Tuckersmith and School Area No. 1, and went on to discuss the evidence. Before the hearing started I raised the is- sue of the legality of this hear- ing. I subjnit that the Act as it now stands does not allow what Mr. Hunter -is asking for- it does envision joint areas, but not disassociation from the Area. He quoted Section 45, sub -section 2. l: respectfully sub- mit that this envisions the peo- ple of the whole area. Judge Hetherington said that it was proper. He also stated: "There is nothing before this court from the Stanley Coun- cil." ", Mr. Murphy continued: "Your Honour, I heard someone out- side in the hall who sad: 'We shouldn't have hearings of this nature'. 'You 'should Consider what is best for the majority of the students in this area. Is this "proposal before this court economically feasible? What is the best for all the students it this area? - "Not one single witness from my friend's side gave a reason that he wanted his child to go to Seaforth for better educa- tion. They all gave personal reasons—reasons of convenience to, themselves, rather than for their children." Mr. Murphy pointed out that no one said that education would be better in Seaforth,, only that it would be more con-• yenient to the parents: "I re- spectfully submit that the Area Board has provided for a cen- tral school with good transpor- tation." Mr. Murphy continued: "1 say to the people of Harpur- hey: go to Seaforth school and pay the fees which make it no more costly than taxes would be in Seaforth.• Enjoy the bene- fits of living outside of urban limits." For the people out side of Harpurhey' or Egmond- ville, they only chose Seaforth because it is easier to pick up a child after school. Mr, Murphy declared: "In conclusion, I respectfully sub- mit that this school board is a forward looking board, provid- ing a type of school usually found only in the city. I sub- mit this system will provide a new trend in. education where children will enjoy library ser- vices, etc. This is a good plan and I trust you will find for the people of Tuckersmith, the people of Stanley and the , Vil- Iage of Bayfield that this area be kept intact." Mr. Dalton spoke briefly. He said the Town of Seaforth would accept the students, but he could not give any figures: He did state that the boiler's capacity was not being half us- ed, and there• would be no problem in adding to the Sea - forth . school. Mr. Hunter said that when 900 acres of land had ben re- cently sold to Separate chool area supporters, it was preju- dicial to both sides, n t just his side. Judge Hethe ington agreed. Mr. 'Hunter said that the peo- ple who gave testimony' did not stress the educational end, but they were all in agreement that the standard of teaching in Sea- forth Is, good, • Mr. Tunter stressed that Sea - forth students would benefit from the enlarged school with library facilities, etc., equally with the Brtueefteld school. 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