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HomeMy WebLinkAboutThe Seaforth News, 1931-09-03, Page 4.i;'ti ArF. t,i, iN,V 4„•9.. 010ill {a5.ft'ycI THE SEAFORTH NEWS. Snowdon Bros., Publishers. WALTON. ' M'is5 Vera Illaist of Winthrop Spent a /few clays last week with her aunt, Mats. 'Geo. Jackson, Mr. and Mrs, Church and nephew. Kay Steven., and Miss Hazel Drager of Detroit, are spending a few holi- days at Mrts. Obas, :Danger's. Mr. and Mrs, Asrktown and 1auvily of Kitdhen'er, Itialve leased the 'house belonlging to Ru's'sell Marks; and are ,exlpected to' be settled this week, Mr. Drink Sp'eare from ehe West, wlbo ie visiting friends at Cromarty, called all friends int ,W'aiton last 'Thursday, •a'ucl Mrs, E, 113ri,tto.ii, of Kin - lawn, accompanied by Mrs, J. F.'Rid- dle, Genie and Jackie, of Tor'onto, vis- ited Mr. and Mrs. J. Love Friday of latst week, and other relatives. The Walton salient was opened: '.on Tiuesdiaybar Pmhte'ipa'l Sellers. The Ju- nior room will be in charge of Mist Parrott of 'Myth, Several of the teachers left on Mon- day to tench: Miss Ruby Young to Dla'Shwaowcl, 'Miss Annie IMeTaggart 'to ffrela:r s sell ol, Wawaatosh, and Mr. George Kirkby returned to Corbett. (Mr, and Mrs. 13. Peterson of Kin- cardine called on friends in the village on Saturday. Mir. and Mrs. W. J. Humphries and family spent Sunday with friends in Stratford. Mrs. Boyle and niece, Mrs. Parker, and daughter Janet, of Toronto, are visiting l'['rs. Bloyle's sisters, Misses [Driscoll, at Leadbun•v, Mlle Guild of St. George's Church 'met at the home of the Misses Dris- sold on Wednesday. Bethel Ladies' Aid held their meet- ing this week cut Mrs. Jno, Crozier's home. The many friends of Mrs. John Dennis, McKillop, were sorry to learn that her condition was found to ,be very serious when she was operat- ed on at Listowel last week. E u/,tic sch'onl opened on Tuesday of this week. Mies Helen Steiss visited with her father on Sunday last, 1W. Nicholson has invested in a new car. Mr, and Mrs. Jas, Watt and Owen of Toronto visited with Mrs. John Watt one day fast week, Mr. and 'Mrs. C. Sellers have re- turned after spending their holidays .at 'Heidelberg. isfies Isabel Rands, Seaforth, visited with :Miss A. .McTaggart for a few days last week. St. George Church Guild stet at the hone of the 'Misses Driscoil on Wednesday afternoon, Mr. and Mrs. Geo. Watt and son' 'Geordie, of Thistledown, „^ere visiting with Mrs. Jiro. Watt on Tuesday. eFiss Hazel Drager, Detroit, is t ts•it ing her mother, Mrs. L. Drager and fancily. 3efr. Jos. Sellers visited his slater, Mrs. Enoch Clark one day last week. Mrs. C. Fiuglnud was visiting her parents in 13'lytli on, .Sunday, BLYTH. Death of Miss Maggie Pollock. — On Wednesday last, August 26th, the .death occurred at Mrs. Cook's aura- ,ing home of a well known and highly respected resident of Morris Town- s ship in the person of Miss :Maggie Pollock, in her 70th year. On the 17th of January, this year, ,friss Pintos'' en- tered Grace Hospital, at Detroit, for treatment, and later was at Fort Erie ,for a while, returning home on :May 17t11, For the past three weeks she IWO nuraed in Blyth, where she pass- ed peacefully away 041 '1Vednesday morning. She was horn on the farm on which she spent her life -time, dau- ghter of the late James Pollock. wl,a died in 1914, aged 92 years, Surviving are a siater and a brother, Mrs, Wren, 1Hagersvilte, and Mr, William Pollock.' for 4111,1111 she kept house, \firs Pal - rock w i known, all over Ontario as a clairvoyant. As a young girl at 'school she lir. t became aware of her powers, when .he saw visiairs ‘111 t' in a trance, althoialli at that time she was unable to distinguish objects as clearly as in later years. So success- ful did she seen to he in locating lost or ' t'0leii olljeeta and seeing into the. future, t'liat even the skeptical admit- ted she must possess an acute, analyt- ,.cal mind, mach above the average. Some very remarkable instances are .,ther5 froth Stratford, Goderich, told of her having described accurate- Clinton and Brussels. ly ,where to look for missing bodies of drowned persons on several accaions. One time a boy who was playing an the hank o'f the river at Win,gham was drowned when, he went in after his cog, When frantic efforts to l'oca'te his body failed, Miss Pollock w•as call- ed by telephone, Her reply was that TIHE SEAFORTH NEWS. THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 3, 1934 1 Come in and See Our New and Used Cars 1 Am Agent For Durant Cars & Rugby b Trucks Masse H i , yart is Machinery and Repairs JOHN GALLOP AGENT FOR FROST FENCE SUPERTEST GAS and OILS All Repaks and Labor Cash. Smitty's Recreation (Formerly operated by W. IM, Stewart) OPENING SATURDAY, SEPIIEMBER 5TH. FREE CIGARS for R O engin •Da y tWe have redecorated the interior and aim to Otto an u-to-dat business, with hal line of 'Candies, Ice Creast, Pop, e Cigarettes and Tobacco. Cigaas;'{ Your Patronage is Solicited. ing broken' through the ice and been drowned. She told them where to look but her inatructionsw-ere e t'fol- lowed for some time 'because a man was trying a divining rod without success. A'fter'wards the body was lo - carted at the spot indicated 'by Miss Potlo'ck she was informed-. Per- haps her greatest faun took place about tet, years ago When a man from Perth County consulted her about same stolen grain. The description, site gave exa'ct'ly fitted a man in the neighborhood of the robbery; and court proceedings were taken against Bliss Pollock as a Sorceress. The case attracted widespread interest in Can- ada and the limited States, While of- ficially the law frowned 011 the prac- tice as Miss Pollock never charged a fee for her services, any remuneration haring been voluntary gifts, she was allowed to continue without further interference, after the case had been tried at Clinton, then G'oderich and finally Toronto. The judge declared that she was at perfect liberty to use her natural powers. Moreover, it is stated that on several occasions of- ficers of the late consulted her regard- ing their problems, whether believing she had occult powers, or the gift of solving human' problems by plain common sense, Her home on' the farm ort the 8th line of Morris became a Mecca for anyone with a difficulty ar who wanted to learn the future, peo- ple coming from M1 parts of the coun- ty, the province, and across the bor- der. Scarcely a day passed that she did 'rat receive ttunterous visitors acrd also letters by mail. Since her last i11- ness and death, letters have arrived from Florida, Texas, Missouri, Neb- raska, California and Vancouver, B.C., MI of which were returned to the senders, but which bespeak the faith the public had in Miss Poliock's powers. The funeral on Friday afternoon seas one of the largest held in' this district for a long tiine. The service was conducted at her late residence, hat 4, con, 8, Morris, by her apastor,, the Rev. T. W. Go'odwil'l, of Blyth Presbyterian Churoh. The abundance' of -beautiful flowers testified to the es- teem in shish the deceased was held in the community which had always been her home. The remains were laid( to rest in Blyth Union Cemetery, the pallbearers being Messrs. WVnt, Laid- law, Janes Laidlaw, David Laidlaw, Janes Ricbmoncl, Jahn Nesbitt, and Robert Nesbitt, . 'Among those from a dis'tan'ce who attended the funeral were: Mr, Ken -1 nedy, John Cumberland, Wilfred 'd Cumberland, Robert Hackett, of Lis- C towel; Mr. and Mrs. Peachy and dau- ghter of Stratford; William J. P. !014th and A. E. Smith, Fort Erie. ,decea eel s sister, Mt S. J. Snth, sI 'Fort Eric, died in 1924); Mr. and Mrs. Wren of Hagersville, and many of Galilee" was sung by Mrs. Colin iFingiand of Walton. In tate evening at St, Andrew's Church the male quartette, Mesara. Floody Hilborn, Lyon and Wallace rendered' ` "My Hope is Bui'bt." Mr. onto Mrs, Hugh Chambers and Alex. of Toronto were visitors last week with Mr. and M'rs. G. M. Cham- bers. Mr, Stewart Chambers return- ed with his parents after having spent a c'otuple,of weeks in.Blyth. Dr. and Mrs. Ross arrived home on' Friday from Toronto where Mrs, !Ross was undergain:g treatment in the hospital since their return from China. Mrs, Ross' friends are pleased to know she is impaovin;g., Mr. James Ne'wc'omlbe of Newark,. N.J., who has been visiting relatives here for several months, left on Wed- nesday for Iiia home. Mr. Alfred Machan's barn, a mile west of Blyth on the Aubfrn road, was burned last Friday night, The threshers were at sapper when the fire broke out and nothing was saved, except a few animals in the barn, A drive shed and poultry house were also burned. and the Londesboro Svn- dicate separatoe was lost. Mr, Me- ehan only recen't'ly moved to this farm from Londesboro where he twice .had his barn 'burned, one time by light- ning. Women's Institute, — The regular monthly meeting of the Women's In- stitute will be held in Memorial Hall on Thursday, September 3rd at , 2.30. Topic to 'be taken by Mrs. A. Brig - 'ham, bouquet contest. Music in charge 'af mum committee. Roll call, My 'Favorite Flower, Hostesses, Mrs. R. IWigh'tman, Miss J. Craig, Mrs. A. (Bender, Mrs. Wm. Craig. Visitors are welcome. 'Miss Muriel' Lamont of Toronto visited with Mr. and Mrs, John Petts, Mrs, Raba Craig and Willie, Eddie and Olive spent some days,last week with her sister, Mrs. Wm. Sholdi'ce, Walton, returning on Friday. rMrs. Taylor of Detroit is visiting her son, Mr. -A. Taylor. Mr. and Mrs, Nelson Nicholson and family, visited Mr. and Mrs, H. Trap- nell of Seaforth on Sunday. Mr. and Mrs. George Evans and Mr, John Steins, 9th coif,, Grey, visit- ed Mr. and Mfrs. John Gras'by, also Mr. and Mrs. Clarence Johnston on !Sunday. Mss Ethel \lathers of the 9th con.. Grey, 590116 the week end with Mrs. Clarence Johnston, Miss Iona Johnston spent a few ays last week With her aun:t,. Mrs. olio Fingand, of Walton. Mr. and airs. John leto ichol and Aubrey visited Mr. ,Samuel Storey of .1eKi1'lop on Sunday. Mr. and Mrs. Chas, Nicholsotl, Gar- , don and Velma were guests of Mr. and Mrs. Chas. Snelling on Sunday, Mr, and Mrs. John. Riley, Eileen and Helen, of Jamestown, spent Sun- day evening at Mr. and Mrs. John` ,Grasby's: ilrs. Argue of Parry Sound is visit - ng her daughter I'frs. (Dr.) Toll, 'Mr. Cruickshank of Toronto will give a talk on bulbs for the Horticul- tural Society ire the near future. His 'ecture will be illustrated with lanterns slides. ft teas 'difficult for her to see over The last union church services of water, bat she could see a tree over_ the summer months were 'held last Sunday. . Rev. Geo. Weir o'f St. t \n - hatiging the river bank. The searchers lonke'd in clic water opposite such a1relw's United Church returned this tree ;anti goon located .the boy's •body,1 week from Muskoka, At the m'orn- rAmdfher time 5115 received a phone i ing service held in Queen S't, Chau -eh colli. icor New Hamburg, a man ,haav_ a well rendered solo, "Thant Stranger Conquers Asthma. To be relieved from the terrible .suffocating due to asthma is a great thing, but to be safe- guarded for the future is even greater. Not only does Dr. J. D. Kellogg's Asthma Remedy bring prompt relief 'but it introduces a era of life for the afflicted, 'Systematic inhaling of smoke or fumes from, the remedy prevents re -attacks and after' effects a permanent relief. VARNA. Our school 'h'a's opened for another session. iyli'ss Cook has been engaged is teac,her. We welcome Miss Cook to our vicinity, Miss Welsh. of Ripley and Mrs. MelG'ee of Auburn Spent a day last week with Mr's. G. H. ,Beatty. ,Miss Thlormp'son of Clinton was the guest of her sister, Mr's. L. Beatty, Vast week, M'r. Fred Austin ha's engaged for a time with Mr. Clifford Keys. Miss France's Mossap entertained a few of her .class mates 'last week. 'Seventy' fceun tli'is district attended the corn roast lash Thursday night in connredti'on with ,A.Y.IP.IO., !veld on the lake shore, Mr. G, H. Beatty wears a broad smite these days on the arrival of a little baby girl. Congnafuuia'tions, ".Geordie". DUBLIN. rs. Mi'oh'ae'l Benninger- is visiting 1rieru n' ds i 'Detroit.. e rott.. 'Mi'ss Mary Kiefer of Mild'sna'y spent last week 'with her friend, Miss Manse ,Benninger. Mr. and 'Mrs. Dave MoConnel'l spent Wednesday in Ohath'alm• Congratulatio''nts to Miss • Nora Mc- Grath who attended Stratford Colleg- iate last year and 'was suc'c'essful in obtaining her 'corn Fete'Senior Matric- ulation' and First Class entrance to Normal. (We' are all sorry to hear that Mr. Ed. Fawcett of ,IHblbent'had 'the mis- :fo'rtune of having two fingers, cult off in a threshing machine Past Tuesday. Mr. Lewis Williams of Cleveland, Ohio, is visiting ,friends 'in Dublin. Miss ,Anne MrdGrath returned borne on Sunday sitter spending the past two weeles in Detroit. Congratulation's to Mr. and Mrs. Albert Kramer on the arrival of a son, John Norman. Miss Bernice McGrath is spending her vacation at her home here. 'Miss Mary Mills returned from Quebec where she spent the summer. Mr. Jack IMolyne'aux spent Mon day at Niagara Falls. Mr, and Mrs. Wm.Stapleton spent the week -end at Midland. The Ladies' Guild of St. Mary's ,Church, Dublin, are holding their monthly meeting this Thu'rsday after- noon at the 'home of Mrs, Alex. Da'r- 1'ing, All ladies and all ladies' friends are invited to come and spend a pleas- ant afternoon at Mrs, .Darling's home. Mrs. Joseph Nagle of Dearborn', Mich., visited her many dear friends in the village during the week. IAl1 schools opened an Tuesday and all the children seemed anxious to re- turn to school after their vacation, • A MILLION ACRES 'IN GRASS 'Cattle are grazing on ten million acres of leased land in Southern Al- berta and Southern Saskatchewan, a figure that does not include the deed- ed land, the open land or the od'd quarter section, where stock range. Some years ago, following a wet sea- son or two, there was a big demand to open this land for h'omes'teads. That it was entirely unsuited for farming, is shown by the grim debris of a million acres of abandoned home- steads. Mut it is a real cattle country, if the question of water can be controlled; the last year or two has made virtue of necessity and walls of dirt are being thrown up across the coulees to hold in the snow run off. Last winter there was no snow and ,consequently a great shortage of water this summer. But. where sufficient precaution is taken, water supply can be maintained and the Milk River and its tributaries flow through some of, the ranches. This has even been known as 'the short grass country covered with self curing grass knowh as prairie wool. The Buffalo chose it for their summer and winter feeding rounds and cattle have been marketed from it without supplementary feeding for many a long year. it is interesting, intriguing country, full of its own ro'm'ance and tragedies as all cattle country is, It is high, flat and treeless, and the eye travels to the horizon with nothing, by way of trees or foliage, to intercept the view. Only along the immediate shores of a river are there any trees. This .hinge pasture is 3,000 to 4,000 feet above sea level and most of it gives the appearance of having been Levelled off and smoothed .down with a giant's knife. But it is not all smooth and level. The knife must have slipped when the giant fell into a rage, for in a deep gash aoross the country is what is known as the "Lost River," No water runs there but the banks remain, in the old channel pet- rified woods, shells, skeletonsand weird formations, It would not be a nice place to be lost at night, But even worse is "The Devi'l's Playground." It is rather terrifying even at noon time and is the epitome of Bad Lands, But stock take to these Bad Lands for protection. 'in.'dirty weather. There are coulees caused probably by the erosions of water draining off the high land, and to the indefinite shelter of these coulees the cattle seek shelter from mid s'uuium'e.r awns and winter blizzards. The chinooks pass their gentle influence over these lands se that cattle lice" on these prairies win- ter as weal as suoin'er, Occ'asionally' they suffer from cold driving snow- storms or from a mast forming .on the top of the snow marking it difficult for'. them to get at the grass 'beneath, but ardlinarily they thrive on this grass, winter as well as ,summer and the only problem is halving ,en'ou'gh. In the old days before it was overgrazed, the land carried' more Battle but now the ranchers plan on thirty to, Panty acres a beast for ,summer pasture: Grass and water are the two very important things to the ranolver, and of late years there hlas been considerable in- ter'ferelvicewith both. Th'e. ran'c'her Himself was resptonrsliible for overgraz- ing but h'e,coutd not he blamed for the drying up of natural sloughs and lake's. Following a number of dry years wh'i'ch had in'tee'sifte'd all their 'p'roibl'ems, a delegation of ranchers niet the Dominion Government to ask thra't a definite study be made of their problems. So theexperimental station at Manyrberries was established under L. B. Thomsen and Dr. E. S. Clark, and its parish includes a million or more acres. 'The problem's they have attacked are: ways and means of re- staring the grass to the country that hats either `been overgrazed or where the natural covering has been broken up by the homeste'ad'ers—and aband- oned; how to conserve and develop water supply—without distrib'u'tion orf water throughout the range, cattle Will not use otherwise good grass land, for there is a limit to how far they can walk to water. IR'anchers have always contended it was not necessary to give salt to cat- tle. They believed' that the animals got sufficient for body requirements feonn ,the ash con'ten't of the slhort gra's's, and the al'k'ali areas, and the natural salt licks, The experiments at this station indicate that while the pastures .provide a certain amount of statural salt, it is not weli 'to depend on this supply alone. Also the salt blocks help to di'stribute the animals and make for more uniform grazing. This station is also experimenting. With other grasses and the economic use of pasture. Also they are s'tudy- in'g breeding problems as they pertain to the range. When it was decided to es'tabtislh the research in .connection with one o'f the existing ranches, the Gilchrist IB'roe. who operate in Western Sas- 'ka'tc'he'wan and Eastern Alberta offer- ed' to co-operate. The Gilchr'ists have been in the ranching business for. thirty years and rioh experience has been of great use to the ofkcers .of the experiment station which was es- tablished thirty miles from Many - 'berries. Here they have use of 155700 acres which is divided roughly into four fields and some 280 cattle are being used together with 94 head on a check pilot. To be sure of ample winter grazing the ranchers, reserved certain areas on which cattle were not' allowed in summer at all, The best bits were kept for the 'winter, so one of the first problems of the Manyberries Station was to improve the grass on summer pasture, lIt was decided to test the system of deferred grazing, which had already been .tried out in forest areas in the United 'States. and where in certain areas and under certain con- ditions a decided increase of carrying capacity was shown. It was thus de- cided to try out how rotation o'f graz- ng would react under c'on'ditions such as existed in the Canadian ranges oun'try, 'They are also studying other actors that effect this policy such as he response of the native vegetation nd ranch management, Cattle are weighed ,four ar five times a year on hese rotations to determine .actual ains in weight. In these inves'tigatio'ns one hundred nd thirty small plots are charted at egular intervals by Dr. Clark and 'his taff in order to measure the increase ✓ decrease of grass over a period of ears; also to check the natural sue ess'ion of the different native vege- ation which followed when the grass eaten off. In his intensive study of behavior of he grasses, Dr. Clarke makes an ac - urate chart of each plot, showing ac'h tuft of this kind of grass and of hat, even of the weeds down to the st seedling. General observations e also recorded: In two or three ears, he will rech'art to see what anges on a percentage basis h'a've en brought about, 'There are some venty different native species, in - tiding weeds, but only a few- of these e really common in the plains, The value of the different species is in•teres't. The protein content of ear grass just emerging from the eath is 14.51 per .cent; of oats, wheat d barley and alfalfa, around 12,'4 ✓ cent.; of Blue join't'+before flow - ng, 1'6.44 per cent; of gr•ama grass buffalo grass, 11.54 per cent. These .tine grasses are.very poor seed set- ts. They are mature around N'ovem- ✓ 20 and all told they have. only ut three per cent. seed, which in, ates that it 'would be an expensive d tedious process to- collect seed for c a g a 0 y e is c e th ar Y ch be se cl ar of sp sh, an pe• eri or to he abo disc an TRY Gillespie's Cleaners & Dyers WI`I` YOUR NEXT ORDER Phone I96w. We call and deliver V, J. Giilllespie, Prop, reseeding large areas. ilaromtheir study of the growth'af grasses, of the economies of the bu'si ness and of tie resiponse in gains or dosses of the cantle on 'these pastures, the tnves,bigatars, will be a�b'I'e to de terntine the practicalbil'ity of their scheme, Naturally in the short time they have been at work, no definite eoaecln- silens ha'v'e been reached but one, thing seems fairly well proven, says Mr. Thonaieon: the carrying capacilty of su'm'mer pastures as they now ob- tain, sh:o ti'd not be increased.. Over a period o'f three years, the average gains in weights of cattle have been: Ili' the period from Apelia 1 to June 25, the daily gain o'n yearling .heifers has 'been 1_'61 pounds, on year- ling earling Steens, 1.38 pound's; on two -yeas` old steers, 1.93 ,poundrs; on two-year- old. speyed heJirfers, 133. For the period fromY. June 25 to .Aug. 30, the daily gains on yearling 'heifers, have been 1.99 pounds; on yearling steers 2.38 pounds; on two- year-old Steers, 2,25 pound's and two- year-old speyed heifers 1,94 pounds', 'For two period's from August 30 to ?Nov. 15 the increased weights have been .76, .98; 1.0; and .7 pounds in the same order of age and sex. There is apparently definitely less.'' 'feeding value in the grass in the fall. 'For years, range cattle have been coming off the grass on to the fee'd lots about the middle of October with the result that they all come onto the market at the same time in the. spring. Mr. Thomson believes that this un- equal marketing is an un'econolm&q factor M. the ,business. Why not, he Suggests, take some of them off the ra'n'ges 'about the middle of August, put them on some protected pasture, with a supplementary grain feed and maintain their high daily gain. Sudba cattle could prolb'albly get on .the ket by Christmas, and it would reduce, the time in the expensive feed lot. Other cattle could be maintained 'through the winter, put on .pasture the spring with 'supplemental feedand so reach the market in the early fall.:. "'If we are going to reduce the coat of production," says Mr. Tho'msan, "we have got to use more.grass.."' !Fie also believes that sh'ee'p could be worked in on the range progranu:me, , utilizing the grass around the pot- holes and other rough places where the cattle never go. /Another project i5 to determine the carrying cap'aci'ty of the pastures and to this end different fields are being pastured at the nate of twenty, thirty, and amity acres to the beast. This. is , also being tried out in the grazing ro- tations. Another project in the econ- omics of the business is to get costs aE 'rou'ghages and pasture for the ' maintenance o'f 'cattle and to see ex- . aptly haw much it costs to winter a. cow under ranch conditions. Also • horw poor, medium orr good summer grazing affects the wintering of cattle. Old ranchmen say that 'hall the wintering of cattle is in the sum mering. Where overgrazing is mac- • €ised a lolwer form of vegetation, a sort of mass, quite useless for feed, come on and eventually crowds out the grass. The scientists propose to take noth- ing for granted but to try out every- thing tinder the acid tests of daily weighings- and measilrings and ac coon+tin:gs, Another important itemy that can be covered in t'his inves'tiga tion will be the percent 01 coif crop under the different condition's. .Since the country has become ov- ergrazed and since leases have been purchased from the Government, fences have been ,put up and this is -no small item in a ranch of hundreds oif thousands of acres. Fencing costs' $125 to 8145 a utile through ordinary country in the Southern Alberta, and Southern Saskatchewan country, but even so it has been found worth while to dip the fence posts to prevent rata- id deterioration, Lord Charles H'o'pe, a recent visitor to California, said 'at a dinner inPeb- ble Beach; "The modern girl is abused a good deal, but she's less materialistic, for all that, than her mother. "A modern girl's mother at New- port'said: "Jane, Mr. Gotro, the veteran 'fin- ancier, admires you very much, He praised you yesterday ,to your father and me ina marked way. If you mind your p's and ,q's—'n "Of course, mwnrntla, the modern girl interrupted, Mr. Go'trox is too old to :be .c'ons'idered e'lkgi'b'le." 'On the contrary," said her another, "he's too eligi'b'le to be considered' ' old,