HomeMy WebLinkAboutThe Huron Signal, 1882-04-28, Page 21
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THh HURON SIGNAL, FRIDAY, APRIL 2R, 1882.
THE COAL TAX.
A •' Soo4dolloger " ler Bir " On-
derdonk " Pupper.
able ta►.t.Ntea et tat Coal elsossagn ti
tr. LL. f. Casferew, ■. r., Ar Soma
Mares
pose proving that those figures wase
false and a latietel to aiirlead, and ih.,t
they did mhllseilt i drat
the pewiol.es on glhiet iia Mssd lt3s 5r-
gstoeot were all site et, rrss/ I, of 0001110,
propose following that op by preying
that the oonolusiens whisk the hon. girt-
fleman arrived et were equally wrong.
New, the ben gentlemen started .et
with two propositions
t� ase was that the
pries of from the United States is
fixed and governed by the competition
it has to meet with in the United States,
and the other was that the imposition et
the duty, or the avil tax, kas not in-
creased the primp( coal to the Canadian
consumer; or, in ether words, that ow-
ing to this competition, about which
the hon. gentleman spoke so vehemently
and so loudly the other night, the price
of coal has been reduced in the Ameri-
can market, to the Canadian purchaser,
and of mune to the Canadian consumer.
The hon. gentleman said, in his speech,
speaking of bis colleague, the hon. Min-
ister of Finance, who said that the peo-
ple of this country paid a portion of the
coal tax:
Mr. Cameron (Huron). Mr. Speaker,
if m memory does net deceive mo very
much, not very lung ago the hon. gen-
tleman, who has just taken his seat, was
not such a pronounced advocate of the
policy of the Government as he appears
to be to -night, If I am net very muck
mistaken, within a period of two years,
that hon. gentleman declared, upon the
floor of Pa-liament, that the policy of
the Government was injurious to the
Province he r.presented. If 1 sm net
mush mistaken, he made a most pathetic
appeal to hon. gentlemen opposite to
consider the claims of the Island of
Prince Edward, because the Tariff was
most injurious to the best interest of
that Province.
Mr. Hackett. No such thing.
Mr. Cameron, (Huron). Light has
dawned on his dark mind, and to -night
we find him a pronounced advocate of
the policy of Protection. 1 did nut pay
sufficient attention to the remarks of the
hon. gentleman to be able to follow him
through his whole speech, not do I pro-
pos doing so. I paid more attention, a
good deal, as I always do, to the speech
of the hon. Minister of Public Werke.
However one may diagree with the pro-
positions that hon. gentleman lays down,
o r with the conclusions that he arrives
at ---end sometimes he arrives at extra-
ordinary conclusions -one cannot help,
at all events,I cannot help, admiring my
hon. friend; he is always pleasant, good
natured and smiling, and, therefore, I
always y a good deal of attention, and
of deference, I may gay, to his
observations. But I think the
hon. gentleman in his opening re-
marks. was exceedingly ungracious to
his colleagues who sat to his right and to
his left. He undertook to twit my hon.
friend for Quebec East (Mr. Laurier)
for having changed within the last ten
years his opinions on Protection and
Free Trade, but the hon. 'gentleman for-
got that there were two of his own col-
leagues beside him, who, if my memory
eerves me right, were at enc period of
their history pronounced Free Traders.
It was ungracious of guy hon. friend,
therefore, to allude to the change of
opinion on the part of my hon. friend
from Quebec East. If he did change his
opinions, of which I.know nothing, all I
can say is this: that if my hon friend
from Quebec East changed his opinions,
he got new light on the subject; he is
going onwards, while they are going
backwards. The hon. Minister of Pub-
lic Works, was ungracious also to his
colleagues in some of the other observa-
tions he [Wade. He admitted that the
tax on cual was paid by the people of
Ontario, because it was necessary to
have a tax of this kind for revenue pur-
purposes, as we were constructing great
public works. A revenue from what 1
From the very articles we are now dis-
cussing -coal and breadstuffs. The
hon. Minister of Finance, when discus-
sing this question some time ago, ad-
mitted that the people of Ontario paid
one-half of the coal tax - he did
not.think they paid more than one-
half. But the hon. Minister of
Railways, who is never at a loss, who
-never hesitates, and who never doubts,
whn never has any difficulty about the
facts or figures -because if the facts or
figures are not there, they can madly be
manufactured to suit any line of argu-
ment he may adopt --was prepared to
establish beyr,nd peradventure that the
people of this country do not pay a sin-
gle fartning of the coal tax, but that it
is all paid by the people who produce
the coal on the other side of the line.
Wold it not be wise, Mr. Speaker, for
the hon. Minister of Finance, the hon.
Minister of Public Works, and the hon.
Minister of Railways to get together
and settle this difficulty which they
have among themselves before they an-
nounce their views to the'IHouse ? They
are evidently not agreed on the subject;
one says that we pay half, the other says
that we pay the whole, and the other
says that we do not pay a farthing of the
tax at all. There was another observa-
tion made by the hon. Minister of Pub -
lie Works, and perhaps, after all, it was
the meet effective part of his argument;
following the example of his limier, he
appealed to kis followers en both sides
of the House -end I am sorry to say he
has followers on both sidles -to stick to
the policy of the Gevernmerit and to
vote down the propoaition of my hen.
friend from Quebec East. Whether the
hreposition was right or not was of no
ind of consequence; the taxes in qua -
tion formed one of the bricks of the
greet superstructure, and it did not be-
came any of the members on either side
of the House who supported him to dis-
place one of the bricks. It was of no
ind of consequence to him whether the
coal tax or the bread tax was obnoxious
..r not; that was not the question; the
appal he made to his friends was to
vote down the proposition of nay hon.
friend from Quehec East, he the propo-
sition right or he it wrong; and I have
no doubt his advice will be taken. I
leave no doubt his followers in this
Howe, whenever he raises his little fin-
ger and asks them to do a thine, will do
it without amurmur; theresrenodificul-
ties in the way that cannot be got over-
ate) oonscientisus scruplea or conscien-
tious qualm. Now, Sir, I propose deal-
ing with the coal tax as it affects the
Province of Ontario. The bread tax hart
been dealt with by my hon. friend from
Quebec East, and he has net been an-
swered, in my judgment. and in feet. n..
one has attempt to answer him. I
pr�pctaa dealing with the teal tax and
jakiog ep a few oheervations made o0
the subject by the hon. Minister of
Railways; i propos analysing the figure'
that hon. gentleman gave to the House;
i propos to call into question the cor-
rectsoss of the statement nude by him
that the coal tax wee not paid hy the
people of Ontario. hot by the producer*
of coal on the other side of the line; I
propose to challenge the tahlee he has
usrmitted to the Heise. and i propose
porrihe ng, beyond doubt that the figures
pigmented to Parliament were choked
---I do rtot man t.. ay by the hon.
Moister of Railways. but hy the man
whit prepavwl the figures for him 1 err
"I am satisfied my hon. friend has
not given that subject the close and ex-
haustive study that I have &riven to it,
or he would have arrived at the opinion
I now unhesitatingly state, that the im-
position of the duty has not cost the
people of this country anything, but the
reverse Now, Sir, my first position is
that the price of coal from the United
States is fixed and preserved by the com-
petition that coal has to meet with."
Now, Sir, the hon. gentleman's first
position is, that the price of coal in the
United States is fixed by the competition
there. Now, the argument of the hon.
gentleman was that, by the imposition of
50 cents per ton en American coal, or
coal arming into Ontario for consump-
tion, its coat is necessarily reduced. Let
us see what are the facts, and then we
will be able to decide whether the pre-
mises laid down and the conclusions ar-
rived at by the hon. gentleman are right
or wrong. To make his argument worth
anything, the hon. gentleman was bound
to show that the competition met with
by the Americans in the Canadian mar-
ket was much keener during the past
three years than during the three or any
number of years preceding the introduc-
tion of the National Policy.. But com-
petition has not leen much keener and
the output from the mines of Nova Sco-
tia
ar
tia has not heen, to any appreciable ex-
tent, increased either by the National
Policy or by any other cause in the Inst
four years. As the hon. gentleman has
submitted to the House a large number
of tables on the coal question, I propose
to submit to the Hogue, in answer to the
hon. gentleman, a number of tables
that, in my judgment, entirely disproves
his propositions and conclusions. If the
argument of the hon. gentleman amounts
to anythin„ it is this: that the keener
the competition the more theprice is re-
duceo. If we can prove that the com-
petition has not been any keener during
the last three years than during the
three years preceding the introduction
of the National Policy, that portion of
the argument falls to the ground. Let
us see how the facts sustain the conten-
tion. According to the statement of
of the hon. Minister the other night,
the sales of the production of Nova
Scotian [nines in 1873 amounted to 881,-
106 tons. In 1877, as appears by the
report of the Commissioner of Mine., price of the best coal, short ton, in the gentleman, mite the correctness .f thea
they amounted to 687,065 tons; in 1878 United States, was $4.60; the price is figures, to the Lehigh Valley Coal Com -
to 693,511 tons; in 1879, to 688,624 new $4.95, or 35 cents more. In 1878, pang, who give the above quotations.
tons; in 1880, to 954,659 tons, in 1881, the price of hard coal, in Buffalo, was ;I think that ought t o convince any rec-
to 1,034,800 tons. This shows that, in $x•40; in 1881, 1st November, it was sortable man that the hon- gentleman's
1880, with the National Policy, and, I $4.95, or 55 cents higher In 1879 the position is not sound. The hen- gentle -
suppose, the Nova Scotia mines in full rice of this coal had gone down in the man's tables are calculated to deceive
blast, the increase of sales of Nova United States, when the very best hard ' the House, and they do deceive the
Scotia coal wee only 73,353 tone over the coal could be bought for $3.03 a ton. House and the country- though I would
ales in 1873; and thtt, in 1881, with The price of that coal is now, $4.95, or j be very worry to say that •hes hen- gen-
the National Policy and the Nova Sco- an increase ever 1879 of $1.92. The i Orman knew it- I believe the tables House that the price of cual (and per-
tia cal {nines still in full blast, and the price of hard coal, in Buffalo, in 1880, were prepared for him, but he ought to haps it is as goad a way as ally to ascer-
country prosperous, and everything was $4.80; and, in 1881, ter now, $4.95, have verified them i elure venturing in talo whether the Canadian consumer
flourishing as we hear continually from 15 cents more than in 1880. So that, submitting them to Parliament. • There pays this duty or not') at Ogdensburg
hon. gentlemen opposite, the increase from 1876 down to the fall of 1881 -and is another position the hon. gentleman and.Prescott showed very clearly that
was onl 153,694 tons over the sales of everybody that knows anything about takes that he cannot sustain. He is not the Canadian consumer did not pay the
the coal trade is aware that the teas on's satisfied with dealing with generalities duty, because the price to the Canadian
supply is always purchased by Canadians nut descends to particulars, and this consumer was no more than the price to
in the fall, nobody buying in the win- line of argument is always unfortunate Amerimins on the other side. He said:
ter --the price of coal has Rohe regularly for him. He is always forcible when "Further evidence is to be found in
up, and it 13 higher to -day than it was he deals with generalities but particulars the fact that coal sold at Ogdensburg in
in 1878, by fifty-five cents a ten. i are tangerous totllim. Hs says: the winter of 1880-81 for $5.90, while
give those quotations from the Secretarys "Here you have1facts clearly establish- at Prescott the retail price was $(1 per
of the Lehigh Valley Coal Company, and I ed that the very moment the duty was ton; the c .st of freight to Prescott, har-
there can be no mistake about them. I ! imposed the parties who shipped their bor dues and unloading is 68 cents. If
have their circulars for the last nix years, i coal t, Toronto and Quebec put these the duty were added to the cost of the
which anybody can examine to see ' play into a different categoryfrom coal it ought to Dare sold it $5.90 plus
whether they are right or wrong; If f what they were before. Themade, 68 cents, plus 50 cents, or, in all,
the hon. Minister" argument were'' their competitive points and reduced the $7.08.
good -if the duty stimulated produc- cost to a larger extent thin the amount I say that statement 10 wholly mic-
tion, and that caused additional camps- of dutise paid-" leading. I hold in ray hand a table
tition, and that again reduced the price well, that is an extrannhnary propoel- showing the prices of hard coal at Og-
el coal, it would be less {+,-day than in tion, burl I will not dal with it just now denshurg and Prescott respectively for
1878, when the reverse is the fact. is the general. I propose showing that three years before and since the duty
There is another way by which I pro- his figures w incorrect. He goes en to was int eyed. It runs as follows:—
pose testing the hon. gentleman's arta- ay: Years. Price ice a! ;'ice at
ment. I do not propose to leave him Kind of Coal )t gdeneburg. Prescott. DM.
an inch of ground to stand on, or the At U-.wegn pial sold during the pre Nov.. 1876 Chevnu. 87.:[0 16.10 less by $I.*0
smallest hole to creepthrough. i oro- sent year at $5.75; freight from t iswegu 1877 6.0.5 6.10 more by 05
g { I.78 i-50 5.60 more by 10
pose submitting to the House facts. to Belleville, 40 cents, harbor dues and • le 9 • 4.60 5.00 more hy 40
figures and statements from undoubted unloading, 28 cents; if duty were added 18 5.75 c 165 more . 15
authorities ei the other side of the line too cost 50 cents the coal ought to sell at
admit at,that chi unappreciable I have still souther table that will owe
aweu/4 dif coal which este put Os the vines the roost seeptiaal that my pregame
tsarist is 1880 over 1873, iSa ut is impassable and that his positives is
aniai from elegy wadpeuML That
Leer � e � (o�� table given obs {ties u1 grate coal, eft
eon market so the O.-4to psrhaser oval, serous and out ausl, all the differ-
end
ifferand 411111101 111011r. Bsslr Sick Vises is still ant grades odd in the market of Buffalo,
anotherwry by whale ieggelpeos W allow whioh are sold to the Canadian consent -
the falleey ref the tablas ..bait ed by or. Let as see whether a Slagle ono ted
the hongetatleasso. I du not know these gr dee brought to the Comedian
who prepared those tables for hist, nor market lima been reduced within the kat
do I care The hen. gentleman -is re- few years, 1f thew grades have been
sponeible for them.. he submitted theta redwood, the conclusions of the Milliliter
to Parliament. I pronounce those tables of Railways is corer; if they have been
to be, from be&riuumng to end, false and increased his conclusions are false and
delusive, calculated to mislead the pub- his doductious misleading, and celosla-
lic, and 1 propose now to prove that the tad to mislead_ The following table
are false and delusive. To establish shows the price of the different eerie -
this propusitiou lot us take the price of ties of hand Duel at Buffalo since 1871,
coal in the three great markets of the on 1st September, each year, 2,000, F.
United States, to the world -not simply0• B.
to the United State, but to the worl. orate. .
The eel dales make no distinction tge..0 .e6
theta. They do not ask where the cal la7s.... . .. . 4.90 leo
is going to, sir who is the purchaser. or MO- ... . 4.56 4.55
who is going to consume it. They situ- ,t21),„filer
ply fix their prices and Det them{. Does
the 1 . gentleman know that, on the
fit de of every month in every year,
the °eel dales of the United Mates fie
the price of anal and that price retrains
fixed until the first day of the next
month 1 Does the hon. gentleman know
that the price of hard coal is always fixed
in the city of Buffalo, hast of soft coal
in Cleveland, and that the prices of both
classes are, to some extent, fixed to
Oswego, the three great coal tnarts of
the United States, where every Cana-
dian dealer, who wants to purchase coal,
goes to supply hia wants ? If I can
show you, by the clearest possible
testimony, that, for the last three
years or since the imposition of
of the duty, the price has gone steadily
up instead of going down, year by year,
in the American markets, notwithstand-
ing that competition the hon. gentleman
has laid such stress on, I have disposed
of his argument. I am not submitting
these figures without authority. I ate
not taking the figures prepared for a
purpose by the clerks of the public De-
portment", o: the evidence of unskilled
or inexperienced men outside Parlia-
ment. The figures I am quoting are
from the Secretary of the Board of Trade
in Oswego, the Secretary of the Board
of Trade in Cleveland, and frgnl the
manager of the coal companies at Buffa-
lo. I hare got their documents and let-
ters in guy hand, and their statements
are open to the inspection of any body.
I find, according to these returns, that
the price of the best hard coal, nut coal,
in Buffalo, where the price is always re-
gulated, w.s ou the 1st September;
1876, $4.90. What is the price now -is
it lea ? No; it is $5.55 the long ton,
and $4.95 the short ton. And, here let
me recall another circumstance that
indicates the utter dishonesty of
the statements subinitted by the hon.
gentleman --- I ole not charge inten-
tional' dishonesty in the hon. gentle-
man. The hon. gentleman tick the
quotations on the other aids of the line
for the long ton, while everybody knows
Boal is sold in Canada by the short ton,
and he made no allowance for the differ-
ence between the long and short ton.
But he ought to have known -I do not
know whether he did or not -that, for
the let three years, coal in the United
States has been sold by the long tun,
and he ought to have Made proper allow-
ance for the difference. In 1877, the
Stove Nut.
$+-70 Vaso
4.80 4.40
3.111 4.0.1 , 1.000
CIO 4-00 tun -
5.53 5.53 short
ton, 11.46
tktw u Pries at
leville 40 Ceuta, harbor dem and wilooa.l- Year. variety. bice a• {Pries un. Difference
416 a, t ee:t'a, making $6.43, and, he ale urate 114;:b615 $1.}N�
1$77 du0.� tt.
en s, that w Belleville Una teal sells at t$77 /11116 oa
, leaving a margin o1 7 waits * tun 1876
to otter interest, insurance, warehouse ; 861 Au 4 N 6.76 R11
rates. oontiugeneies, etc. The eelter The iuordase hat .64gocm atesadiljl 2.11
exeepl
RW+ 7 ware, .t$eIliug t e oke h,u- goo- when the prices were retry to
whet otdfornt, arse and ab en u, 1879, what he
id for mot.
lleea any
wan
on the other Woof the line. The sante
believe fur a single movant that that things moire at Cleveland the beet
w the case 1 The tking is absurd. Let gard to soft coil, sad perhaps
me give you the {rue facts, and I verify way
yoto test t the he matter . ttes,giive eat e
those in the sats way I verified the pdvarieties,
tis. be w
faety given • moment ago -by the tables everything depends uponi
1 hold in ,ivy hand, from the Secretary are quoting nue variety in the United
fel the Board of Trade for the city ut States and another variety in Canada.
GarOswego as The startinghe tgentleman
Ile says, Railways hakes I do not ul dune sthe o, but I mn. the manter of
to esy
seal sold in oawe,ro . r $5.75 and in that the tables he snbmittml are nut very
Belleville for $6.50. Let us see upon clear os this point. 'f tie following aro
what facts that is based'1 t)u the 1st of the prices of the three classes of mai at
Cleveland:- -
November, 1881, the price of the very
hest hard coal in the city of Oswego per
longi n of 2,240 lbs., was $5.30; the
prier per short ton was $4.73. The
5r� freight 1 aasu'ue to be correct, 40 cents
{+hurt
Take grate and egg, which are sold at atom; harbour dew and uuluading, 28
same price, and compare price now with a ton; add duty those there items,
that three yuan ago, and in every year and lou brio$ It up to $5.91. The ven-
dor in Belleville sells to his customers,
there u increase: 'according to the huu. Minister's state-
ment, that ,amu coal at $6.50, leaving
profit, after laying duty, of 56 cants a
tun. It is manifestly clear from this
that the consumer pays the duty. The
hon. gentleman is unable to show to the
House that, during any portion of the
year 1881, or any portion of the year
18140, hard coal wa sold in Oswego, by
the short ton, at any such figure as the
how- geutleman has stated, and it was
at no period of the year mus, by the
short ten, than $4.73. Again, the hon.
gentleman says that the puce of coal is
regulated by the competition, and that
the increased competition in the Cana-
dian market has reduced the price of
cal to the Canadian purchaser ou the
other tide- 1 say that i+ wholly incor-
rect,
ncorrect, and I propose to establish that fact
by the letter I have in my hand from
the Secretary of the Board of Trade,
Oswego, which is as follows: -
"i am in receipt of your favor of 10th
instant. I ant unable to give you the
puce of coal for the month of Septem-
ber in the years mentioned, but have
obtained from A. S. Cok, agent of the
Delaware, Lackawanna and Western
Coal company, the prices for 1st Nucera-
ber of'the same year, which, I trust,
will answer your purpose. \1r. Cook
also wishes rue to state that your Tariff
has not the slightest influence un the
coal tra-le here, as that expense necess-
arily fills on the consumer. Prices are
made here without refer.we to the
Tariff. "
That, I think, disposes of the hon.
gentleman's statement 'that tho cempe-
tition the American coal meets with
here regulates the price of coal on tho
ether side. I have a letter from the
Secretary of the hoard of Trade of
Cleveland, who, speaking of the sane
subject, says:
again reduced the prigs of coal 1 But the 'These circulars are the general ones
contrary is the result. The hon. gentle- used for all parties, either Canadian er
man's figures are all ening. He put the American, fur shipment to the \{'eaters
price of coal, in 1878, at $3.35, but he United States Ierts, such as Detroit,
will find, by reteren.e to the quotations Chicago, Milwaukee, ei.., etc., ter Cana -
from the Lehigh Valley Coal"Company dian ports.'
that the price of coal there was $4.5{1, The prices at all those points ate pre -
ors difference of 70 cents; and, in 1880, Meetly the sante. It makes no difference
he says the price was $3.04, when, as e as far as the American trade is concern -
matter of fact. the puce wes $4.55, 0r a ed, whether coal is *hipped to Canada
difference $L4L I refer the hon. nr to pointe in the United- States.
Precisely the snore price is asked, and
the hon. the Minister of Railway's ell
search among the records of the coal
companies of the United States in vain
Grate. F.tnt, Price nt %bort ton.
Year. Price or. Ione ton, 111.50
1877 ---1{.45 now 41.41 Irea,.c user 1877. 10.40
1878 -- 4.55 •' 4.65 liar. 1N
1876-- 1.00 ' 4.061871 1.78
IWO -- 4.55 " 4.15 '• 10/6. e -M
The game reatark holds good with re-
spect
s-spect to Oswego and other American
markets. Then is still another way by
which I prnpsae to prove that the hon.
gentleman's, position is wholly unsus-
tainable. I well pruve it out of his own
mouth. Iu the tint place, his figures
are wrong and misleading; and, in the
next place, his oonclusoos are not war-,
ranted by theta, even if they were cor-
rect. "It is impuesible ttbe boa. gen-
tleman says) for any iapsrt,al oiled to
arrive at any other conclusion ttaan that
imposition of 50 cents a ton has not only
not increased the price of oval to the
consumer in Ontario, but has lowered
it. And then he submits a table from
which you will tied that the price of
1878 is put down $3.85, but in 1881 the
price was 14.25, or en increase of 40
cents. He laves out 1879, however.
Isthere any reasenfordoing so 1 There is
a good remain- namely, that the price
was still lower in 1879. In 1880, he
say's the price of coal was $3.04; in 1881,
it Is $4-25, or $121 tucrease. In the
first place, I say tb,ose figures submitted
by the bon. gertletnan are wholly
wrong. I defy the hon. gentleman to
prove that the price of hand coal, is
1881, even the lowest grade, could be
obtained in the United States at $4-25.
But assuming the statement to be cor-
rect, what is theeresult I Why, that hia
table proves that the price of hard coal,
in 1881, was $4.25, and, in 1878, it was
only $3.85. *Has the price of coal there-
fore not increased 1 Is the hon. gentle-
man correct in saying that the imposi-
tion of the duty did stimulate produc-
tion that caused competition, and that
{'rhes nu w,
Year. Variety. Price. 1181. Utlerence.
els. eta
1876 Sfasslton NU ' me None
IIi7' du 2 6WII 2 80
2 481 lucrea.e$0 SIII
Is70 du 4 00 do 050
1876 14rler11111 S W
1877 du 3 4u 4 Ve do Oso
1378 do SYS 44 (0 Deedo a 76
1077 Sor tellers 440 4 1t5 1 r 1$
1878 du a su 496 do 1 16
What are lite prices to -day? A large in-
crease in every grade suite 1878, and
yet the hon. Minister of Railways wants
his followers and the country at large to
believe that the imposition of his little
duty of 50 cents a tun en coal does reg-
ulate the price of Canadian cosi It u
folly fur a persen to argue a preposition
of that kind any further. I am not dis-
Iesed to waste the time of the House in
arguing against what to my mind u an
absurd proposition on the face of it.
Hon. gentlemen opposite will no doubt
question the figures. Why, Sir, if the
hon. Minister of Railways said ane thing
and an angel from the upper world came
down and said something else, they
would accept the word of the hon. Min-
ister of Railways. But I air- go-
ing to quote the lam. Minister of
Railways against himself, and sure-
ly they will no longer hesitate
and doubt if I quote Tupper against
Tupper they will not object. Hen is
what the hon. Minister of Railways said
at C.beerg:
'Can any person give me a reason
why coal iu a country where the revenue
is raided as we raiser. ours—by indirect
taxation - why coal should not be a
seurce of revenue? I knew of none. Is
it because the masses of the people are
not •benefitted by it? 1 deny it.'
But that is not all; he winds up with
this little tit -bit:
"Again Mr. Blake states that 1 said
in Victim the $4410,000 collected in coal
was paid by the people of Ontario. What
if 1 did? Do you not think Mr., Blake
would have acted the part of a' candid
man, if he had also told you that of the
$369,000 of revenue collected on wheat
and flour, not'one cent had been paid
by Ontario,and all was paid by the Mar-
itime Provinces." 1 hope hon. gentle-
men tnml the Maritine Provinces and
especially those who laud the National
Policy, and who are opposed to any
change in this marvellously perfect Tar-
iff, will take note of what the hon. the
Minister of Railways admits in his speech
-- that the people of Ontario do not pay
the tax on breadstuKs, but that it u
paid by the people down by the see
And I hope the people from the other
Provinces,' who support the hon. the
Minister of Railways, will take note of
the admission of the hon. the Ministers
of Railway", that the people down by
the sea do not pay the tax on seal, but
for a justification of the statement he that it comes out of the pockets of the
submitted to the House, that the price people o1 Ontario. I will not traipses
f teal has been reduced a single cent longer on the tune of the House. 1 have
from the day the duty w.a3 imposed up established my propoesitiun, and I defy
to the preaeua time. TheItentle- the hon. the Minister of Railways or any
man went further, ami he 14,11 the of his supporter., to controvert my facts
and arguments. I have sheen the ab-
surdity of the areurneot that the 73,000
tons of coal which we raised in 1878 ov-
er what we raised in 1873 could regulate
the price of the 66,000,000 tons produc-
ed in the United States market in 1880.
I have shown that the ttbles reed to the
House bp the hen gentleman are wholly
misleading, that they are calculated to
mislead, and that they will and do mis
lead. I have shown that the figures and
quotations given by the hon. gentleman
as from the American markets are not
justified by the reports. i have shown
that the tables were cooked by some-
body. I do not ku"w or care by wbem
they were cooked. 1 have shown that
the conclusions drawn by the hon. gen-
tleman from theprom ism he laid down are
wholly fallacious and %stung, and I think
I can leave it to the gold, sound commdn
sense of the me.nben of this House whe-
ther or not the the poeit.u.) of the hon.
the Minister of Railway" is correct- At
all events, as I have an abiding faith in
the good sound common sense of the
people of tkis country, I can lave it to
them, and when the hour coma as
come it must—and f de tont care how
aeon– when the people .re called upon
to pronounce on the policy of the Gov-
ernment, I am greatly mistaken in We
intelligenee and common sense of the
people of Gamins, if they .do not
sweep from power the men who in 1878
attained office by deceptive pnomiees,
which they have not fultilled,and are not
able to fulfil.
h
1873. Does the hon. gentleman mean
to say that because, in 1880, 73,000 tons
of Nova Scotia coal were sold more than
in 1873, the price of American coal was
thereby reduced in the slightest possible
degree? There is stip, another way by
which one can test the correctness of the
prepositions of the hon. gentleman. If
the Neva Scotian coal has come into
sharper competition with the American
coal, during the last three years than
formerly the former must have displaced
the latter in our markets to a' great ex-
tent, and the importation from the
United States must necessarily have fal-
len ofl: But what are the facts ? This
tableahows that, instead of there being a
falling off, the importation of Atnerican
coal has greatly increased during the last
few years, and especially since the intro-
duction of the National Policy. I do
not desire to trouble the House with
figures, but as the hon. gentleman has
submitted to the Howie figures with the
intent of convincing the House and the
country that the position he took was
correct, I am going to trouble the House
by a few figures to show that his posi-
tion is a falseandincorrect one. In 1876,
the importations of cal, both hard and say by which I propose testing the one -
soft, into Ontano from the United rectness of the figura of the hon. gen-
Staten, were 472,706 tons; in 1877, they themes --by considering the different
amounted to 607,747 tons; in 1878, to I kinds of oral and the prices of each, a
588,412 ton"; in 1879, to 643,385 tons; course which the hon. Minister, in pre -
in 1880, to 667,164 tens; and, in 1881, senting his figures, cautiously (omitted.
despite the marvellous coinpetitien from
the Nova Scotia mines, spoken of by
the Minister of Railways, that affected
the prim of American coal and reduced
the price to the Canadian consumer, the
number of tons imported fron the Unit-
ed States reached 810,970 tons. In
other words, we imported from I'nit- man, to establish his argument, no bard seal as rho American market at
ed States, in 1881. into Ontario, 222,- doubt, t rnk different grades at Bnfsb 1 $toll. vibes be wanted to prove the one
and Toronto, and of course the di/beset 1 ergsmwt• He then wanted to establish
grades would be sold at different presm fbe last that the ceepetition, indoced
To see whether the argument of the hes. hJ the sal duty, had induced the price
of Oral Is tat Comedies consumer.
)Raw, Nit, wheel be wants to shnw that
di
s Cesaan consumer does not pay
dm ads, be lacrosse• the price .of real
fhse$ 111 tap to «t 75 a ten. Rut
diet. . 14e
wthe ign-
• way. He � in two arqu-
ments which be wished to establish, and
els be nianipelatee facts to prove hie
pmdtins- Thoe. gentlemen is neyet
afraid of freta; they never stone in his
way. in a •trogele bete/ems the hen.
gentleman and fret.. the facts always
come out second beet, and so they do is
the present else. in order to establish
his argument that the roneemer dries
not pay the duty. he puts the price of
areal at fah 75 at (sewer° frwiehs • Po'
that even the hon. Minister of Railways,
with all his audacity, will be utterly un-
able to answer. There is another way I
Dalen in teal know that there are four
or five grades of coal, hard and silt,
sold at different prices. You find hard
coal at Buffalo sold at one prim. while
another kind is sold in Toronto at a
lower price, the different grades bearing
diforent prices. But the hon gentle -
$6.93 cents, while the price at Belleville
was $6.50, showing that the duty has
been to decrease and not to increase the
puce of weal'.
Now, let us consider nn what he bases
his arguisent. in order te fortify his
position, what does he do t in order to
prove that the competition reduced the
price ..1 coal to the Canadian consumer,
he puts the price down to $4.2:, per ton.
in order be prom that the consumer
does net pay the dsty, be increases the
pries w the Amerima market to $6.75,
or $1.110 mere than he placed it at when
establishing anseber proposition. r In
the case speech, he puts the prim of
538 tons more than in 1878, before
the National Policy was ever heard of.
But the hon. gentleman argued that the
imposition of this duty stimulated pro 1 gentleman is eortect,yy.uhave to compere
duction, that production caused comps- i the prices of the different grades deed
tition, and that competition reduced the' in the United States with their prises is
price of coal. Leos the hon. gentleman 2 Canaria; and if the .hen gentleman 4M
mean to tell us that because, in 1880, WI i satiety the House that these prices bell
.old 73,000 tons re than in 1873, that I been reoluc.wl by the National 1'ohicc]],�
therefore the price 0f 06,000,00n tins, i 1 have not another wend to say - 1 will
the nom) prduetinn of the f7nitad Staten admit that he is right and 1 am ernsgo
in 188(1, was thereby affected in the I But till he can do me f will take a differ -
slightest der7ree 1 The hon. gentleman I ant view. The following table will ahoy
might just as well ay that the prices of I the correctness of my position -
the 297,000,000 tons, the evil prodwe-
tion of the world in 18711. were affected no
1 ream -nr naanrlat
hy the extra 73,000 tens of Nova Montle'I Year. Price. tote. line. in. rear.
coal pet els the market in 1880 over and I 1870 .N>n NOS tom
above the amount put on the market in ' Umg7 s. tai 1
mg !8 NM tis 4 t NM
1873. The hon. gentleman most know 1871) Sat Cr 1.W
and admit. if h. nnly lin. .'o .•nnr)., rr, 1511 tat) t e•• . IN
tact I 0'
And se it is with regard to the different
varieties of coal. Hon. memoers will
find the same result if they take the
prices at any Canadian point opposite to
an American city of importance. Take
Sarnia and Port Huron, and I venture
to tell the hon member that if he will
examine the quotations far the last three
years at those points he will find that ttaewervtsia or r.ae..,
the price at Sarnia exceeds that of Port T. much cannot be expressed in favor
Huron by the amount of duty. i do not
care to trouble the House with figures
for all the points in question, but those
respecting Port Buren and Sarnia, De-
tr-nit and Windsor, Buffalo and Hamilton
and Ogdensburg and Prescott, show, in
every instance, the same result, and I
challenge hon. gentlemen opposite to
to take the figures and show that the
prices charged Canadian consumers are
less than are charged on the other side
of the linea.
Some hon. Mernber. Hear, hear.
Mr. Cameron (Hutton). i know I am
touching a tender and raw spot, and
that hon. gentlemen opposite d.. not
like the fancy figures of the hon. Minis-
ter of Railways to be successfully expos-
ed. 1f you take Buffalo and Hamilton
y.ou will find the same state of affairs
there. For the sake of convincing hon.
members not in the Government but
who are interested in the subject., 1 will
read quotations at Buffalo and Hamilton
sheaving, beyond a shadow of douht,that
the eondition of affairs is veru different
from that stated by the hen. Minister of
Railways. The wholesale prices in Bef-
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henceforth you will rejoice in the praise
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bottle, by Geo. Rhyne. (11
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And every one who has tested its
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or all throat and lung complainta,cueglis
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